The Transformative Power of Dirt: Green Reentry Through Composting with Victor Perez and Carla Doughty

Jordan Ashby:
Across the country, the community composting movement is growing. Local composting provides communities with immediate opportunities for reducing waste, improving local soil, creating jobs, and fighting climate change. You are listening to the Composting for Community Podcast, where we bring you stories from the people doing the work on the ground and in the soil. I’m your host, Jordan Ashby from the Institute for Local Self-Reliance. And in this special episode, I have the pleasure of being joined by awardees of last year’s Composting for community mini-grant program, Victor Perez of Garden Time Providence, and Carla Doughty of Zero Waste Providence. Victor Perez was born in Brooklyn, New York. A math lover, Victor experienced family instability and was pulled into the streets eventually spending 25 years incarcerated. While serving his time, he participated in Garden Time, a program that introduced him to composting and gardening, sparking a strong interest in food systems and holistic health in Providence.

Victor works as a tree steward alongside Youth Apprentices and is also a youth development motivational speaker and compost educator and outreach worker. Carla Doughty is the executive director of Zero Waste Providence. Born and raised in Providence, Carla spent the first decade of her career in youth development and cooperative education transitioning to two decades of farm-to-table restaurant and house management across the country in Providence, Oakland and Minneapolis. Upon moving back to Rhode Island in 2019, she sought out work in the compost industry and has found much joy at the intersection of her passions and professional skills for education and local systems. The Composting for Community mini-grant program made possible with support by 11th Hour Racing provided $165,000 in mini-grants to 10 local composting organizations serving underserved communities, particularly BIPOC-led and BIPOC-serving composting projects. Applications for this year’s program will open shortly, so if you’re interested in learning more, be sure to check out the show notes of this episode. Thank you so much for joining today, Victor and Carla, welcome to the podcast. It’s so great to have you.

Victor Perez:
Thank you. Good to be here.

Carla Doughty:
Thanks.

Jordan Ashby:
Yeah. To begin, I was just wondering, Victor, if you could start by introducing yourself and just say a little bit about what you do at Garden Time.

Victor Perez:
My name is Victor Perez. What I do in Garden Time, I basically, I do a lot of tree service. We do tree planting, we do tree watering, we prune the trees, we do tree maintenance, we take care of the trees and I’m actually an employee of Garden Time. So I also get paid by Garden Time to do these things. And furthermore, I do the green team with the youth as well. We do watering trees and stuff like that. I do Zero Waste Providence outreach, and it’s all interconnected with Garden Time.

Jordan Ashby:
Thank you. Yeah, we’ll get more into all of those pieces, but Carla, could you now just introduce yourself and say a little bit about Zero Waste Providence and how all of these different pieces fit together.

Carla Doughty:
Definitely. So I’m Carla Doughty, born and raised here in Providence. I am really excited to be able to work very closely with Garden Time, the organization that I represent, Zero Waste Providence, and other organizations in collaboration such as Groundwork Rhode Island, and just so many like Harvest Cycle. So Zero Waste Providence is a nonprofit. We have open membership. We’ve got about 500 members now and we’ve been around about 12 years. So we focus on minimizing the waste footprint here in Providence, Rhode Island. And what that looks like lately is a big focus on limiting single-use plastics and also educating and getting folks involved with community composting, whether that’s at a backyard level or it’s using one of the various services that exist here, a pickup or a drop off site.

Jordan Ashby:
Thank you both for those introductions. I’m excited to get further into both of the work that you’re doing in this episode. So Garden Time was a recipient of the 2024 Composting for Community mini grant, a $20,000 grant made possible with the support of 11th Hour. And I was just wondering if you could explain what that grant funded Garden Time to do and what the relationship is there with Zero Waste Providence.

Carla Doughty:
Definitely. Zero Waste Providence is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit, and so is Garden Time, two separate organizations, separate governance. We just happen to get along really well. So Zero Waste Providence operates as an employer partner for Garden Time. Garden Time has two cohorts a year of eight week sessions where formerly incarcerated folks apply to be a part of the program, get accepted and go through that eight week training program. In the last week of that eight week training program, they can select an internship that interests them and ideally the internship will translate into a paid position after they graduate from Garden Time. So Zero Waste Providence has very healthy relationship with Garden Time. We provide internships in that final week of Garden Time’s eight week training session. And then based on recommendations from Garden Time leadership and enthusiasm from the graduates themselves, people will self-identify or be identified by the organizational leadership as a potential good fit for performing the labor that .Zero Waste Providence has to offer.
That labor looks like door-to-door outreach, canvassing small group education at libraries, block parties, going and setting up tables at farmer’s markets and interacting with people who maybe already have some interest in the local food system. Trying to find people who are what we call compost curious and really convincing them to jump in and get more involved. Now’s the time. We offer really practical routes for people, for common folks, residents of the city to participate in food scrap composting, whether that’s through a backyard compost mentorship.
We will connect you with a person who will help you compost successfully in your yard. We will help you find the right drop-off site, whatever’s convenient. Maybe it’s the closest one to your house. Maybe it’s at the library where you pick up your son every Thursday, whatever’s going to work for you. Those can be free for folks who are experiencing financial hardships. We can also connect you with a pickup service, so that’s something you would pay a monthly fee and they come right to your house and collect your food scraps and take it away but nearby to be processed into finished compost, and then you get your finished compost back in the spring. So really the labor is a paid training from Zero Waste Providence, and going over all of these resources, topics and specific practical methods of composting locally, and then performing the outreach and education work at events in organized fashion and through canvassing.

Jordan Ashby:
Amazing. Thank you so much for sharing. And yeah, it’s really exciting that that was one of the projects that LSR was able to fund last year through this grant program. And so yeah, Victor, I was just wondering if you could say a little bit more about the outreach and education piece of it because I know you said that you work with the community to do composting outreach as well.

Victor Perez:
So last year I was introduced in to the other part of the organization as Carla was just saying, Zero Waste Providence. So basically the outreach is just educating people about anything that has to do with composting. And we also have someone who actually educates the people personally, and we was able to also donate some of the composting, not necessarily bins, but a piece of equipment so that people can actually do it in their backyards or in the back of some schools or whatever the case may be. But we actually sit there and we outreach by just like Carla said, we do door knocking. Some people we call, we stay in contact with, they email us, we email them. And it just be further education for them to understand that through the composting we can actually be able to produce natural nutrients for people and stuff of that nature.
And sometimes, if I’m not mistaken, I think that at the end of certain terms or seasons, we also give them some compost so they could grow their own stuff, maybe whatever they want to grow, some herbs, some flowers, or even if it’s to help just nourish their o.wn soil or whatever the case may be. Because Carla also has castings from worms and stuff that she takes care of the little rig worms and it’s mad dope because all the kids, they love the worms, but anyway, the cast and actually gives nutrients compost as well. So we able to provide that for some people when they want to grow stuff as well.

Carla Doughty:
Yeah. To add to that, we try and hit people from different angles and capture people’s interest in different ways. So sometimes we’ll be door knocking and offering a flyer. We’ve got a survey people could take, and that’s a way for us to capture their contact info and they can express continued interest. For example, maybe we’re knocking on the door while they’re trying to prepare dinner for their four kids, and it’s not the best time for them to have a conversation, but there’s a conduit of communication where we can stay connected and they can get more information at a time that’s more convenient for them. We also set up tables at farmer’s markets, block parties, various events throughout the city year round to try and interact with people.

Jordan Ashby:
Thank you both for giving that background and sharing. We actually just had a webinar on outreach and education and composting programs, and so I’ll link that in the show notes if anyone is interested in that. But it just really ties closely into one of the big things about community composting is the community part, and that’s why local and distributed composting is so powerful in a lot of ways is because you’re able to get so many different touch points. So I wanted to follow up on this thread of how it looks to get folks involved. Victor, I was just wondering if you have any particular experiences or stories that come to mind.

Victor Perez:
Well, it is wild because for me it is an expansion. So for me it’s a reflection as well. When I got into composting, I basically got into composting because I wanted to eat fresh food. I was incarcerated and I was doing a lot of time incarcerated, and I was eating a lot of processed food and stuff like that. So I basically just wanted to get in the program to eat natural, to eat better food because they was growing all kinds of different fruits, vegetables. I seen strawberries was in there, raspberries, they had blueberries, they had different herbs and stuff like that. They had asparagus. They had a whole bunch of stuff I never even knew, but I knew it was nutrition. So I wanted to get in the program. So when I got into the program, it was actually Garden Time got presented inside of the prison.
When I got there, I was like, easy. I’m trying to get in there and eat some good food, man, I’m tired of eating this processed jail food, messing with my stomach, causing me all kind of acid reflux and stuff like that. I was looking forward to that. When I went in there, I didn’t really go in there with no other intention to eat natural food. I really did not really care about participating with the compost or anything like that because already in back of my head, I’m like, “Oh yeah, that’s just a whole bunch of filth,” and whatever the case may be. So then when I went into the compost pile, even to this day, I use that as a reflection, right? Because I went in there and in prison for so long I felt dehumanized. I felt like a part of my humanity was basically being sucked into a world of basically people that don’t care about they self.
So I became one of those people, and actually through composting, I was able to really understand my worth and build this resilience that helped me basically transform into a better person that I actually knew I was human. And to be human was to be one with nature. So everything with composting for me, even from Smash therapy, I went in there. I was a really angry person. I just had came from a maximum security, which is a high security level of prisoners, and I’m saying all that basically to say that when I got back, I was still this angry person. And to deal with my anger in prison, you’re not going to get provided with therapy. You’re not going to get provided. I wasn’t getting provided. I don’t know about now, I don’t know how times evolve or elevate, but when I was in there, I didn’t get provided with any of that.
So the only thing I had was basically my violent self. So through composting, I was able to use what they call now, I learned, smash therapy. So I would be really taking all my frustration, all my anger out on doing the things that other people wouldn’t do, like chopping down all the pieces, everything. And helping the compost, basically compost the nutrients for it. And then I started learning all the different formats of it, of how to put each portion and how to basically balance it so it won’t be too acidic, it won’t be too alkaline. So I started getting into all the intricacies of it, and then I started seeing how it brought fruits and vegetables into how it cultivated it, how it germinated it. So basically all this dirt, all this nasty stuff that was like, that’s how I felt for a long time. I felt like dirt.
And then I started seeing it bring all this produce, all this nutrients, and I started seeing it blossom flowers and all of this. And I was like, “You know what? That’s a reflection of my potential.” So now, basically the point that I’m making is now I do outreach not just for .Zero Waste, but I also do outreach for Circles and Silence, which is an organization where we go and speak to the youth that are actually vaping and doing things that, as we know as adults, is basically putting toxicants into your body, which is a dirt process, which believe it or not. So I use basically everything that I learned about compost to show that potential of cultivation into bringing it into fruition. So I brought all of that into basically, I used to smoke, I used to drink, I used to be angry, I used to do all these filthy things, but I was able to see my worth once I stopped planting these seeds and watering it.
And cultivation comes out of it. And a lot of these kids, they inspired by that, they inspired, they like, “Wow, man, you really smoked, vaped and did this.” And a lot of kids are inspired, and I’m like, “Man, I don’t want to smoke. I don’t want to do this.” So it’s like it didn’t just stop there. It didn’t just stop in composting. It didn’t just stop in us planting trees, bringing better oxygen to the people, its also don’t put that intoxicant inside of your body because that’s a process that you don’t really want to do. It’s basically like just leaving dirt as dirt and not composting and not enriching it, and bringing this nutrients into soil so the soil you can bring greater and better produce. So I don’t know if that makes sense to you, but it makes perfect sense to me.

Carla Doughty:
Yeah, there’s this holistic aspect to it that when I was working in Boston in the compost industry, I felt like there was a lot more competition between different groups and companies. And working in Providence there’s just this different vibe where all of these different organizations and businesses that are technically in competition with one another for business and for grants and all of that, we’re working together almost seamlessly to just achieve this shared goal, recognizing that there is plenty of food waste to go around. There’s no lack of food waste. There’s enough pieces of pie for everyone to get a piece. And really allowing kids and adults to reconnect to the food system, reconnect to the fact that we live in society with one another.
We need to be in communication. We need to understand our food systems and our waste systems and how we’re not sending things away to this mysterious place, but we’re all participating in a system and we all have a responsibility to be aware of what’s going on and take ownership. That one story you tell Victor, I heard you share that story about feeling like dirt and then recognizing the power of soil and that transformative experience you had while you were incarcerated. You shared that last year with our Providence city council and the city councilors were so moved, several of them got up and shook your hand afterwards, gave you their business cards. That story is so powerful, Victor, and I’m really glad you shared it again here today with this group.

Jordan Ashby:
Thank you both for sharing that. And Victor, especially. In that story, in the way that you just told it, it sounds like your personal experience kind of mapped this circular nature of what composting is and also what we’re trying to build in a lot of communities, right? The tree service is connected to the composting, which is connected to art and poetry, which I maybe just brought in because I know that you also write poetry and make art. So maybe we’ll touch on that in a little bit later. But it’s also connected to youth engagement and it’s connected to the soil and building up the climate, and I appreciate how the work that both of you are doing really threads that needle. We’ll be right back after a short break.
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Something that I wanted to ask another question about is specifically how composting and urban farming has helped provide pathways to economic empowerment. So I’m not sure if either one of you want to start by just talking about that.

Carla Doughty:
It’s definitely a growing industry. Composting is trending like mad here in the ocean state in Rhode Island. We’re the smallest state in the union. We’ve got a pretty historically corrupt system of governance here, which you can listen to other podcasts about if you’re interested. But getting change to happen here is slow. It takes a while. In fact, last night our congress in the State House was hearing a bill that would add a $2 surcharge to each ton of landfill headed to our landfill. And that $2 per ton would sit in a fund that then compost educators could tap into and use as grantmaking or municipalities could tap into and use for infrastructure capacity to increase our composting capacity here in the state of Rhode Island. So we’re hoping that that passes. However, we have an extremely short legislative session here in the state of Rhode Island, and our legislators are all part-time employees.
So it does take a long time to get the legal end of things to catch up. But in the meantime, boots on the ground, small organizations, larger funded organizations, we’re all working together to get the information out there into people’s hands so people feel like they know what they’re talking about when they then speak up to their legislators about what they would like to see here. Or we’re connecting people with a backyard compost mentor who can show them how to succeed at composting instead of just buying what we call the Darth Vader bin, the big black bin, and setting it in the corner of your yard and forgetting about it. So we’re really amped to participate at this level of interacting boots on the ground, peer-to-peer education, policy advocacy, networking with other organizations and companies to see where they’re at and what we need here locally to be able to process material locally, keep the value of the compost in our neighborhoods and truly become more self reliant.
I know it sounds redundant to speak on the Institute for Local Self Reliance podcast about self reliance, but that’s really what it’s about. Especially in a national climate where the state of Rhode Island just lost an $18 million grant from the EPA that was going to really support our compost infrastructure. So we’re scrappy, we’re small, we’re effective, we’re successful, we’re meeting our goals, and hopefully we can show off our successes to the decision makers and get some larger structural change to scaffold us in the direction that we want to go with composting all of the compostables instead of landfilling them.

Jordan Ashby:
I definitely see a through line there with this idea of both there’s a policy level change that needs to happen, and we’ve been working in Maryland to actually get a very similar piece of legislation passed with that $2 per ton surcharge. But then there’s also the boots on the ground. And especially now in the national climate where the federal government and some of these big grants that a lot of organizations have been relying on are now disappearing. I think a lot of people are asking the question of how can we from the bottom up, build up our communities and keep these programs going? And so I think it’s important though also to just keep in mind what the benefits of those things are. And so I had a question for you, Victor, about what the impact of these types of programs has been for you. And you mentioned how your entry point to composting was in the prison at first, but now you’re working in so many different organizations all across Providence. Can you just speak to that?

Victor Perez:
It actually helped me just be a better person. Without these programs, hands down, we wouldn’t be able to… One hand washes the other, so we wouldn’t have been able to uplift one another. We wouldn’t have been able to see how it is that from being the worst you can actually bring the best in you out of you. So these programs were not only a reflection, but there was also a growth development for our, I’m going to say our, even though I should be speaking for myself, but our character. Our personal development of our qualities that we were able to obtain in order to overcome those darknesses that we go through in prison. Through no one’s fault but our own right. Because basically I put myself in there, but at the end of the day, I didn’t put myself in there to continuously be cruelly punished.
So these dehumanizing experiences that I experienced, I had to overcome that. And believe it or not, like I said, there was no therapy in there. There wasn’t none. So these types of programs was basically what helped us find ourself, right? The person that really is deep inside of us, which is someone that’s of elevation, someone that is of community building, someone that can be community oriented, that can be productive in society, that can also give back and pay it forward through experiences that we experienced so the next person won’t have to go through it. And that’s basically where I feel as though all that empowering that these programs did for me, I’m able now to pass it on so someone else won’t have to go through it. So when I go to schools and do presentations or when I do outreach for composting, it’s a bigger, grander scheme of things.
Not scheming in a negative way, but basically in a strategic way. There’s a bigger impact because we also want to impact the community so they can also compost, so they can also be able to get the benefits of what it is to have natural nutrients of what it is to community build and grow and evolve with one another without looking at societal politics, let’s say. Right? So without looking at any of that, just seeing one another for what we are. So basically for me, that’s what it’s about. Basically for me, it’s just seeing I’m not just dirt. Dirt can basically produce so many good things, so many nutrients, so much nutritional value. And also that’s in me as well because at the end of the day, there’s life in me. There’s life in trees. So when we plant trees, I feel as though we planting pure oxygen.
You know what I’m saying? So we basically helping people breathe better, we helping people get away from the sun and protect themselves from the heat that might cause them sunburn or whatever the case may be. So these are all things that I look at that were an impact in how I view things now and how I perceive things now and how I’m productive now. So at the end of the day, that’s basically what it’s about, using these programs to become better. And at the end of the day, mostly everyone because some people go away, but mostly everyone in this program were a family to me now. They treated me like family then when I didn’t have no family, when I didn’t have nobody going to visit me, going to be there for me, they were the ones that visited me. They was the one that came up there with the tools, equipment, and program.
So I can have something not just in the walls, but beyond the walls. And at the end of the day, that was something to look forward to. I wasn’t just coming out here to basically just me in the streets with nowhere to live, no job, no job opportunities or anything like that. I had a job training opportunity. Now I had a job opportunity. Now to further extend, now I’m staff at my job training opportunity. So it’s like an escalation, it’s like a ripple effect in a positive way that came about from these programs. So for me, it was an amazing impact. To me, I was able to become better to me. I was able to release my stress to me. I was able to build resilience, to me because of these programs I’m able today to go to Florida and see my uncle that I ain’t seen since I was eight years old. And that’s all came from that character building from that moral goodness and nourishment. And it all started with these types of programs.

Carla Doughty:
I love that, Victor. If I could add also, I find that I personally struggle with depression and related mental health issues. And I found that working in this industry, in compost education has helped me feel more grounded and more connected and more in community with folks. My number one enemy is apathy. I feel like a lot of people will read a headline in the news that says, “Recycling doesn’t work,” or some really dismal news. And that leaves us with a feeling of, oh, what I do doesn’t matter. I can do whatever or nothing, because it doesn’t really matter. But we know that’s not true, right Victor? So when we get our heads straight, when we get our mind right and are able to put some actual facts and knowledge in there and understand how systems function or don’t function or how they’re designed to function for some and not others, we can make efforts to fight that apathy and to educate folks and to show them with our actions that we do make a difference.
Locally one of our colleagues, Michael, who, Jordan, you had the pleasure of meeting in Cleveland. Michael runs a onsite compost processing system at the shelter where he lives. So it’s not quite a shelter, it’s a transitional housing with 30 beds. And they are processing all of the food waste from that 30 bed unit and the prep kitchen downstairs, which produces food for additional shelter spaces here in Providence. So he’s been learning from Stuart Martin, who runs Providence Garden works here. It’s another one of our grantees on this USDA grant.
But with thorough training, we’ve absolutely transformed what used to be a garbage dump site and a high rat traffic area into this gorgeous little compost processing site. The rodent pressure is gone, they’ve moved elsewhere. The neighbors no longer toss their empty liquor bottles in that spot. They see that it’s being cared for. They see that it’s being stewarded. And also we show off quite often the magic of composting itself. We open up the bins, pull out the thermometer, show people what’s happening in there and talk a little bit about how. And then they get excited and they want to participate. So combating that apathy, getting people to see that they do make a difference. We’re really here one by one trying to just create little ripples in our communities throughout the city to get more and more people to get it trending, to get people interested, to get people activated and participating.

Jordan Ashby:
Yeah, that is a great story and example, and thank you for sharing that because one of my questions was why do you think it’s important for everyone to have green spaces and the ability to engage with composting soil or urban farming? And I think you really just kind of hit the nail on the head with that.

Carla Doughty:
And to jump in with just one more note about that specific site, it’s called Open Doors, is the residence. So they have composting on site and an edible native landscape garden they planted. And also they have a series of really robust raised beds. They offer a free farmer’s market every Friday during the growing season. So it’s like this just benefit that keeps giving benefits to the community. So there’s a few transient folks in the neighborhood who really rely on that free farmer’s market on Friday. And while we love our traditional paid farmer’s markets, we want to make sure farmers get the money they need to have their own business. Being able to have a free farmer’s market in the community, by the community, for the community is just huge. It feels amazing.

Jordan Ashby:
Yeah, that’s amazing. And I think just kind of continues also to show once you start with one thing, it’s so easy to feel the apathy like you’re talking about. But I feel like in my experience, when other people see people around them doing really amazing work, that inspires them to also feel like they can do that work themselves. And so just being public and visible with the work that you’re doing, I’m sure is inspiring so many other people to start different initiatives or offshoots or branches.

Victor Perez:
So a lot of times we bump into people that are shocked to see us have such a different perspective of life and be engaged in such a natural way of life that they don’t even look at natural. Because the norm in the struggle is the abnormal. And then the abnormal becomes normal, which is chaos, violence, getting high and stuff like that. So now they see that I don’t get high, I don’t drink, I don’t smoke, I don’t vape. I don’t do any of that stuff that I’ve done in the past. So now they look at me as someone that’s engaged with dirt or someone that’s engaged with Carla. And Carla’s so down to earth, and they don’t understand how there’s down to earth people, that’s not in the street or not in active in criminal activity or stuff of that nature that seem to be nature.
It’s mad dope when we come across them and they inspired and at the same time they stay, it seems like they’re a little bit shocked and scared to say that, “Yo, you know what? I respect that. I admire that.” They respect it, but won’t acknowledge that they admire it because what other people might think of them or whatever the case may be. It is really resonant. It is really cool. It’s dope. But I like those moments because most of the times they’ll see me somewhere else and be like, “Yo, man, how you doing that? I can’t even stay out of jail for X amount of time.” Or whatever the case may be. And then I’ll just be like, “Hey man, just sign up, man. You could go right on the Garden Time website and sign up, be a part of that job training. Maybe, maybe not, but at least you gave it a try.”
And these are just doors that are open for other people that might be caught up or might not see another way or whatever the case may be. Because sometimes if they don’t have this program, like a minimum security, so they might go to minimum and come right back out, and not even know about this program and stuff like that. So it’s on us to enlighten people and inform them, and that’s basically what we do with outreach.

Jordan Ashby:
Yeah. And that circles right back around to the outreach and education piece and also the importance of having people from a whole bunch of different backgrounds engaged in this work and being able to meet people where they’re at in order to know what will resonate in order to engage them in this. Because Victor, like you said at the beginning of the episode, your initial draw into the program was the food, right? And I think the food side of things is a huge draw, but then there are other people that might be more coming at it from the soil side or people that are really annoyed that there are rats in their housing unit or people that are annoyed that the air quality in their area is really bad and what can we do and why does there need to be an incinerator right here? Is there an alternative for that?
So I feel like I’ve had different conversations with folks and it’s really just about tapping into the messages or the connections that resonate, and it sounds like you’re really good at doing that. So I love to hear about the work that both of you are doing. We’re getting towards the end of the conversation, and I was just wondering if before we close you had any final thoughts or lessons learned that you would like to share that we haven’t been able to touch on today?

Carla Doughty:
I definitely have one at the top of mind. I always have something to say. This past week was International Compost Awareness Week, ICAW is what we call that. And in Rhode Island, we hosted several field trips. So every day of the week, we took a different field trip to a different location. We did a backyard composting field trip. We did a worm composting field trip. We did a community garden and small scale processing. We did a trip to our anaerobic digester where a lot of our institutional food waste goes, all sorts of scales, which was exciting. We also went to Earth Care Farm, shout out to Jane Werner who’s a champion. What I find really interesting is the financing of this industry, and to just kind bring it back to the grant making and how grateful I am that 11th hour recognized ILSR and the power of funding through that channel, how that trickles down to us.
It’s really impactful. When we toured our local anaerobic digester, we were taught by the facilitators of that location. The digester was purchased for a certain amount of money, and then an additional 55 0 million dollars was invested to create duplicative systems so that if something broke, which it always does, they could still process. And every time I hear that fact 50 million was invested after the fact, after they purchased it, I’m like, “What could we do with $50 million?” We could compost every single bit of food, scrap. We could aerobically, compost every single bit of food scrap in the community where it was created. That amount of money to me seems like a dream come true.
So to get the private sector, to get private equity, to get venture capital interested in composting is really, to me, it’s like how do we make that happen? Because there’s so much potential, it’s so effective to fund these grassroots efforts, these small scale, medium scale, regional efforts. And to pay in with unrestricted funding that allows me to pay a living wage to part-time outreach workers who maybe wouldn’t pass a background check and be able to get a typical 9:00 to 5:00 job. So creating pathways for people to experience success in really tangible ways is massive. It’s part of what I am trying to use this position at my job for in these years is getting grant money and paying folks to do the work as opposed to paying for some overhead cost or paying myself a huge salary. Just to be frank, getting rich people interested in investing in composting is huge, and I’m really grateful to the Schmidt Family Foundation and 11th hour for recognizing the connection between ocean health, soil health, composting, and our food system.

Victor Perez:
My final thoughts would probably be like for me, these programs inside and behind the walls, they actually save lives. Not only do they save lives, they actually help people become a better of them. So me, I’m not a dad, but I know for a fact that this program has helped people become better dads. It helped me become a better brother. It helped me become a better son, and it all for me started with building that resilience. With building that resilience through the compost. So we’re seeing the reflection of, I might’ve felt the way I felt when I was younger. I might’ve felt like dirt. Then it came to a point where I was really feeling to the point where I wasn’t going to be nothing more than dirt. So I’m in prison feeling that way, and then when I seen the potential of dirt, I said, “You know what? My worth is better than what I was taught to believe or what I allowed myself to believe or what I started to believe.”
So I was able to break all of that, just like composting breaks everything up. I was able to break all of that and bring it into something that’s of worth. So that’s basically what I did. So today, I’m a better worker because of it. I’m a part of four different organizations because of it, and they all value me, and they all value me in a different light. They all value me in a different light. I’m able to touch the youth because of it. I have kids that come, not kids, but youthful people. They come up to me and they’re so inspired that they like, “Yo, listen, I’m going to stop smoking and I’m going to stop vaping. I don’t want to get high anymore. If that’s what the cause of it is, the cause and effect of it is I don’t want to do it anymore.” I was lost, right? I was lost for many, many years, and I was able to find myself through compost and do a simple program of Garden Time.
I’ve done other work and stuff like that, but just being able to have that relationship, relationship with compost just gave me a second chance at Life beyond the walls. But actually me being able to share my story with them gives them a different light, a different perspective, and they’re able to say, “You know what? I understand that.” As opposed to listening to all this other stuff, educational stuff, stop smoking or smoking causes cancer, this, that, and the third. At the end of the day, when they actually get the real hands-on experience, they want to quit and they be inspired by it. They want to live. Because the way I look at it, to me personally, when you’re stagnant, you’re dead, right? Because stagnation is like death. There’s no growth, it’s nothing. But when you’re growing, when you’re evolving, you are living, right? So to stop growing, it’s to die and to live is to grow to evolve. So that’s what composting and planting does. It basically causes growth and elevation and evolving.

Jordan Ashby:
That is a great note to end on. I just really appreciate you both joining today. I feel like we covered a lot of ground and there is so much more that I’m sure we could talk about, but I want to be respectful for everyone’s time.

Carla Doughty:
Cancel all my meetings. We’re staying here all day.

Jordan Ashby:
Yeah, just stay here all day.

Victor Perez:
I’m grateful for you having me as well. Thanks for inviting me.

Jordan Ashby:
Yeah, of course. Really, really appreciate it and have really loved having this conversation.

Carla Doughty:
Thank you so much, Jordan. Thank you, Victor.

Jordan Ashby:
Thanks for listening to this episode of the Composting for Community Podcast from the Institute for Local Self-Reliance. This episode was produced by Drew Berschbach and the ILSR’s composting team. Our theme music is, I Don’t Know, from The Grapes. Be sure to check out the rest of the ILSR podcast family, including Building Local Power, Local Energy Rules, and Community Broadband Bits at ILSR.org.

• ILSR Awards $165,000 to Community Composting Projects Serving BIPOC Communities
• Webinar: Education & Outreach to Reduce Contamination in Composting