Solar Help Desk Offers Agenda-Free Consumer Assistance — Episode 220 of Local Energy Rules

Jani Hale:
SUN teams are interconnected with the Help Desk. If we don’t already have the answers, we start crowdsourcing with our in-house solar experts, some of whom have the same or similar equipment, panels, inverters, and EVs — electric vehicles. For instance, a caller from Arizona asked very specific questions about the EV tax credit, and I asked one of our program associates out in Ohio who was able to give us information for me to pass along.

John Farrell:
Nearly 5 million American households have solar installations, largely representing early adopters are willing to take a chance on a reliable but novel technology. But as the industry grows, more attention has been brought to ensuring the customers have the right information to get a good deal. With some unfortunate stories of bad actors causing bad experiences, where can consumers go for help? Nonprofit Solar United Neighbors or SUN advertises its Help Desk as quote, “solar expertise, agenda free.” They offer a threefold approach to helping customers get a good solar deal: handholding through going solar, including through SUN’s buying groups; customer support for those that have solar; and advocacy for consumer protection laws and standards. Joining me in August 2024, two members of Solar United Neighbors explained their role in solar consumer protection. Help Desk Manager Jani Hale and Policy and Rural Energy Director Liz Veazey.
Jani and Liz, welcome to Local Energy Rules.

Jani Hale:
Hi John. Thank you.

Liz Veazey:
Thanks, John. Great to be back.

John Farrell:
So Liz, you already got to answer this question that I like to ask everybody about how you got into this work. So I’m going to go to Jani instead and just ask you, Jani, how did you get into this work? How did you end up doing a Help Desk for solar customers? What’s your story?

Jani Hale:
Yeah, so I’ve been in consumer-facing roles for over 20 years now in the social work and hospital administration industries. So my training and experiences have helped me in situations like when a solar owner contacts us and they’re angry or distraught and frustrated with their installer. And some consumers don’t understand their contract or the complexities that are involved or confused by the process. So my experience as a hospital administrator has done me well to practice a little bit of patience and empathy when dealing with consumers that are in not so good situations. For example, I had a homeowner in Illinois that emailed me about complaining that they were waiting for months after they’ve already had a walkthrough with the installer and they wanted them to start work. So we did a little research and found out that there were permitting delays in that area. So it wasn’t entirely the installer’s fault. But I love it here at SUN. It’s a great come up.

John Farrell:
I just love that you gave this example about permitting because I literally yesterday was recording an episode with folks from the Interstate Renewable Energy Council and World Resources Institute about solar permitting, and we talked specifically about those delays and how they can be so frustrating compared to, like, if I want to buy a refrigerator, I go and I buy it and it’s like, maybe it’s two days before it will get delivered, or if I buy a TV, I get it that day. And I buy solar and it it’s like, oh, well it might be weeks, it could be months. It can be such a frustrating process sometimes. So it’s great that you’re there to help mediate that for folks and to help explain it to them from the standpoint of having lots of experience knowing that.
So more and more people are putting solar on their roofs every year. Could you talk about what are some of the common issues that people might have or what they might need to know to avoid any pitfalls?

Jani Hale:
Yeah, so the Help Desk provides steps for consumers to take depending on their issue. Say for instance, a person tells us they’re overwhelmed with the many solar companies out there or they don’t know where to start. As a part of our consumer education standard, we give them step-by-step instructions on how to go solar on their own, shop for installers, and what to ask. We get a lot of inquiries that some people just don’t understand their utility bill or production app, so we ask them to send it over so we can review and explain it. Same goes for proposals and contracts. Now we’re not attorneys or accountants, but we can look for any red flags. We advise consumers to get a few bids for comparison. For folks who already have panels and are in dire straits, we share our consumer protection resources, like how to submit a complaint to the Better Business Bureau and their local attorney general.
On occasion, when installers go out of business, there already may be a class action suit in progress. So contacting the AG or attorney general is a major step. I’ll give you an example, a retired couple from Florida called our hotline with an orphaned system and worried about repairs to their damaged system. What touched my heart in this case was that they knew the system would outlive them, but their main concern was passing down those problems to their children and grandchildren who would eventually inherit the property. As a part of our consumer remediation initiative, we’ve cultivated a partnership with a pro bono legal program that will assist consumers with things like finding loopholes to get them out of bad contracts, and we’re in the final phase of our Help Desk inspection program to provide services for those who have been left abandoned by their installer — in some cases in the middle of their install. So those are a few of the things that we have going on at the Help Desk.

John Farrell:
It’s amazing that you’ve got kind of the whole breadth of the experience going solar. You know, I’m just getting started, maybe I don’t understand my utility bill and whether or not this will work. Maybe I’m in the process and I don’t know how to review a bid — or even afterwards. I think even the afterwards part seems really helpful because of course if you’re having a problem and the installer’s not helpful, then you can really feel stranded, and having someone that you can talk to seems really, really helpful.
Do you have a sense, just out of curiosity, what is the most common thing people call you about?

Jani Hale:
Orphaned systems. A lot of times smaller installation companies just go out of business or file bankruptcy and leaves consumers worried about maybe their warranty, worried about their contract, and even their financial… if the system is financed. So we want to assure them that your inverter company or the manufacturer still holds responsibility on things like repair. They’ll have to contact their financial institution if they want to talk about financing, but for the most part, some of these installers that go out of business, they’re notified by the Attorney General, and like I said before, some even have class action suits. But an orphan system or I’ve been- my installer’s out of business is probably one of our most popular replies.

John Farrell:
Well, definitely something where people are going to need your help.
Let’s back up for just a second and talk about, you know, so people understand, Solar United Neighbors is not just a Help Desk. Could you talk a little bit about the model in terms of how you help people go solar in general, and how it helps navigate through some of the specific challenges of that process?

Jani Hale:
And before I get into that, we’ll probably go back to abandoned systems and orphan systems just in context because I have more stories to share.
But a part of our model here at Solar United Neighbors is our solar co-ops. These are groups of property owners who use their combined purchasing power to save money going solar. We offer it in 12 states, including DC and Puerto Rico, and our solar coops are member-driven and it’s free to join. So they’re never charged for participating in a co-op. And as a co-op member, they’ll receive a personalized bid from an installer selected by the whole group. They can decide whether to move forward with their installation, so there’s no pressure. And if we don’t have an active program in that area, that’s where our Help Desk steps in. Yes, we cover the other 38 states. We even got an email from the Mariana Islands. I think that’s in the Guam territory. So yeah.

John Farrell:
That’s amazing. So one of the things I love about the SUN Solar Help Desk, you have this tagline, “Solar expertise, agenda free.” Can you explain what you- kind of, the meaning behind that and how the Help Desk fills a gap in how consumers can get solar information otherwise?

Jani Hale:
Yes. Well, there’s no sales pitch. When we share information, sometimes people get confused that we’re the installation companies. So we must remind consumers that we’re nonprofit and we’re vendor neutral. We don’t partner with any sales companies. We come in with no biases. Our only agenda is for consumers to have a good solar experience. We work at rebuilding trust within the industry and trying to change the negative narrative of bad solar actors.
To fill in promotion gaps, we lean on our other SUN teams who conduct these superpowered email campaigns from lists we share with industry partners — sort of like, “Hey, how’s it going with your new solar panels?” email. Some reply with, “They’re not saving money,” and others say, “Great, I love my panels. It cut my bill in half.” It varies. But one comment that’s consistent is that they’re glad SUN exists in this space.
Another way we get the word out is through our social media presence. Now when consumers Google “solar help,” we are the first to appear. Now we’re not big on snail mailings, but we count on word of mouth, like in our co-ops, which mainly consists of neighbors. A caller from Texas said that he drives by his neighbor’s house every day and gawks at how nice their panels look. So we told them to drop by or leave a note to ask them about them. For the most part, people are happy to brag about and share about their solar system.

Liz Veazey:
Yeah, I think it’s really important that SUN doesn’t just help people go solar, but Jani and the Help Desk and SUN as an organization have a ton of resources on consumer education and support, which I think are really important. But SUN builds on that and then brings people together to fight for our energy rights and to fight for better solar policies together. And that’s a really important part two of our model. So I think it’s really important to maintain fair credit for solar and fair grid interconnection policies and reduce barriers to going solar so that we can help more people go solar and help build a stronger movement to continue supporting these policies. So it’s sort of a cycle where we’re continuing to help build the movement of people that have solar and then help organize those people to make sure that we have strong policies.

Jani Hale:
Yes. Thank you, Liz. That’s a super important part.

John Farrell:
Yeah, thanks Liz. I want to ask another question about using the Help Desk and then also just how SUN covers its costs. It sounds like I don’t have to go solar with SUN or make a donation to use the Help Desk, that it’s just freely available. So I guess my question there would be, first of all, is that right? And how does SUN then cover its costs for providing the Help Desk service?

Jani Hale:
No, although we would like for those to go solar with one of our co-ops because it ensures that the installer is vetted and the contract is beneficial. But sometimes that’s just not possible, especially for those in states where we don’t have on the ground staff. And we know for some that this is a lifetime investment, so we advise people to take their time. They shouldn’t feel rushed in making a major decision, and donating is great, but it’s not mandatory, but it is one of the ways we are able to provide this free service. A consumer from Maryland, I think, informed us last month that they just scheduled a home assessment, but they’ve been in contact with our solar Help Desk for almost two years now. So they’re taking their time and shopping so that they can make an informed decision.

John Farrell:
That’s amazing that they’ve been taking advantage of the conversation with you for that long and still on the solar journey.
We’re going to take a short break. When we come back, I ask my guests about SUN’s expertise with solar, whether SUN can help folks who have defective installations or panels, and how to get help. You are listening to a local Energy Rules podcast with Solar United Neighbors Help Desk Manager, Jani Hale, and Policy and Rural Energy Director, Liz Veazey.
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How do I know that Solar United Neighbors has the right answers to my questions? What expertise do you have or what experience do you have so that I know can trust that what advice I’m getting from SUN and the solar Help Desk is the right advice?

Jani Hale:
Yeah, so SUN teams are interconnected with the Help Desk. If we don’t already have the answers, we start crowdsourcing with our in-house solar experts, some of whom have the same or similar equipment panels, inverters, and EVs — electric vehicles. For instance, a caller from Arizona asked very specific questions about the EV tax credit, and I asked one of our program associates out in Ohio who was able to give us information for me to pass along. We also developed a tier two escalation process that includes our vice president and director of Go Solar programs. And these are heavy solar hitters. They work with huge projects and own systems themselves, so that’s also a resource. We also mandate Help Desk staff to take the photovoltaic PV exam to be NABCEP certified, which is the North American Board of Certified Energy Practitioners — a mouthful. And since there’s no real solar license that’s been created yet, it’s the most respected and well established, widely recognized certification organization in the renewable energy space.

John Farrell:
It’s interesting, you mentioned there that a lot of the staff at SUN that are able to help might have solar themselves or EVs or other things that people are curious about. Is there a SUN buying co-op for employees? Is that something that is intentional of trying to help people go solar because of that usefulness in terms of both the knowledge in your work about policy or the knowledge to work at the Help Desk?

Jani Hale:
No, but that is a great idea. I think Liz would nod her head to that as well, but I’m going to write that down.

John Farrell:
That’s great. So you already answered this next question I had a little bit about can I get help if I already have solar panels? Could you give me, I don’t know if an example or just some idea of, like, if I have a maintenance question or a defective panel- I’ll actually give you a personal example. So fortunately, the solar company that I went solar with is still in business, and I did use Solar United Neighbors. So I’m not just an interviewee, I’m also a customer. And I found it really helpful actually because the idea of getting multiple bids and going through that process, even for someone who lives in the energy policy space, was still a little bit intimidating. But anyway, we were out of town over Christmas and our house sitter calls us, is like, “There’s this big sound on the roof, and I went outside and took a picture and one of the solar panels had fallen off the racking.” I just can imagine that sometimes that might happen to other people, and maybe their solar installer isn’t in business anymore or they can’t reach them. How would you help someone in that situation?

Jani Hale:
Yeah, I’m so sorry to hear about that. Usually solar panels are built to last. They’re weather tested with hail and wind, and sometimes the actual installation is usually the issue there. But we are here to assist, like you stated before, at any stage of your solar journey. So one of our pillars in the Help Desk being consumer education, consumer protection, and consumer remediation — would fall under that last pillar. And we always say call the installer first about any maintenance or defects, but if they’re nonresponsive, then you call us and keep in mind that there are thousands of manufacturers and each system is very different, so specific. It’s important that consumers read their contract, know what equipment they have, and if they have questions about either then they can call us. Plus we track complaints and send monthly updates to some of our industry partners and try to help get some attention if the issue has gone too far.

John Farrell:
It’s funny that you mentioned the installation. So actually I had a two-part solar fix journey. I had been watching my tracking software or whatever for the production- the production tracking software that said how much energy is coming off the panels that was part of the install, and I had noticed that one of the panels was under-producing compared to all of its neighbor panels. And so I worked with the installer who then did a warranty request through the company. It was interesting because the panel manufacturer had gone out of business, but the warranty was still covered. So just something I think people might not expect is like, oh, you might think if the company goes out of business you’re out of luck. But that wasn’t the case.
So we were able to get a replacement panel and that’s what had happened is that the mounting hardware was slightly different for the new panel than for the original ones. And so it was just a little loose and it happened to be the one that was faced into the wind basically. And so it got shaken off by a really big windstorm in that particular case, and he was able to go back up there and, to his credit, on Christmas Day, was on my roof after a snowstorm getting the panel installed again. So hat tip to Solar Farm in Minnesota, great customer service in terms of standing by their installations. But it also made me feel grateful that I knew that I had SUN that I could talk to as a backup in that situation if they hadn’t been responsive. So anyway, quite a story.

Jani Hale:
Yes, it was. I’m so glad that they were able to come out there, and yeah, for the most part, solar installation companies want to help, but there are a few bad actors out there and we’re just trying to change that negative narrative. So I’m glad to hear that this was a successful outcome.

John Farrell:
Speaking of that and kind of the issue with bad actors, what else is Solar United Neighbors doing beyond the Help Desk to promote solar consumer protection?

Liz Veazey:
So the Help Desk and solar consumer education and resources are really important, but I think SUN realizes that we need to do more than that. So we are engaged in regulatory dockets, work on state policy, and our VP of Go Solar programs has been very involved in helping develop the Solar Energy Industry Association or SEIA’s consumer protection standard, which it’s good timing now because that draft is now open for public comment through September 9th. And the standards follow the American National Standards Institute or ANSI requirements for standards. So those are a few things, and we’re working on inclusion of a pretty straightforward one page disclosure form as an appendix to those standards to try to help increase transparency and access to information about solar sales for people by encouraging that.

John Farrell:
So a lot of state energy markets are overseen by public regulatory commissions like public utilities commissions or public service commissions. So there’s these appointed or elected regulators who are overseeing the energy markets. They’re usually overseeing utilities, but this is also related to that. You also have state legislatures, which are obviously passing consumer protection legislation all the time from everything from used cars to consumer products. So what I hear is that your- SUN is actually out in that space working on stuff that states could pass or adopt, policies that they could adopt, that would help protect solar customers specifically

Liz Veazey:
Yeah. So in Virginia, we worked- we tried to pass legislation in 2023 to create a stakeholder group to talk about solar consumer protection actions that could be done at the state level. That legislation didn’t pass, but we did work to try to engage some of the groups around that. So we worked to engage interested parties from the solar industry, local solar installers to national, the attorney general’s office, consumer groups in the state. So we didn’t have an official state sanctioned group, but we did work to engage different groups in the state around solar consumer protection. And then we introduced legislation in 2024 based on that work and those conversations that included a disclosure requirement of a disclosure form for residential solar sales and would’ve created a group to continue conversations about actions that could happen in Virginia. That legislation actually passed, but then the governor did a line item veto of parts of it, and the legislature was like, no, that’s not what we wanted. And so it died. But now that SEIA has developed or is almost finished developing this consumer protection standard, I think SEIA is also working on model legislation. And I think at this point, we would probably defer to that SEIA model legislation and connecting to those national standards, if states want to work on legislation related to consumer protection.

John Farrell:
Great. It’s an interesting to hear how it’s evolving. I’m sure legislation is always a slow process. I think the lesson for anybody who’s done it for a while is it often takes more than a single year, but it’s good to see that the evolution here is going in that direction.
I had another question about overcoming barriers to going solar, maybe less on the consumer protection side, but we often hear stories about, what if I have a barrier from my homeowner’s association that has rules preventing me, or maybe my utility just has some sort of policy where I get really low reimbursement for the solar energy I produce. Can SUN help me with that?

Jani Hale:
Yeah, I’ll jump in here, John. It all depends. For example, there are rules that forbid HOAs in certain states to deny solar installations, but we can help you navigate through that. An example, I got an email from a director of a cultural center in Maine, and they didn’t qualify for rooftop panels because they were located in a historic district, but we did some research and found out that they could hopefully be a part of a community solar project in their area because they were set on just getting some panels and cutting their utility bill in half.

Liz Veazey:
And I think SUN has worked with people in DC and beyond in historic districts to get solar panels approved, but I think it takes a lot. It can be totally not an option and it can be an option, but I’ve heard it requires a lot of engagement and conversations and meetings to move some of that forward.
But yeah, SUN was involved in passing some of the state laws that Jani was referring to that ensure that people in homeowners associations can go solar and that HOAs can’t block solar. So we can provide information about those laws and similar laws. We worked on those laws in passing those laws in Minnesota, Ohio, and Virginia, and probably beyond, but there are at least 27 states with solar access laws. I mean, some are stronger than others. But yeah, I think those are important to make sure that people know about that and can try to leverage those laws. But some of them only apply to new HOA rules after the date that the legislation was passed, or may be pretty vague in terms of what they can and can’t do. But I think we try to help people navigate that and provide support to potentially pass stronger laws.

John Farrell:
And to that other question I had about the, like, let’s say my utility doesn’t pay very much for the solar that I produce, even if I could save a bunch of money by just using less energy in another way, can SUN help with that in terms of solar compensation, often called a net metering law?

Jani Hale:
Oh yes. Combating utility corruption is a whole other challenge, and that’s a part of our policy and advocacy goals that Liz spoke about earlier. Even if folks don’t have or want solar, we encourage everybody to join the fight that Liz talked about earlier.
So I’m going to just do a little plug here. When you go to our website at www.solarunitedneighbors.org, click on the take action tab, that’ll bring you to our signup page. So you’ll see on that page that we want to stop utilities from charging us for things like lobbying expenses and political contributions and make it harder for utilities to increase our rates and stop utilities from using our money to lobby against our interest.
The other barrier that you mentioned, the net energy metering, NEM for short, it allows consumers to receive money back — just in case, a little education here — to receive money back on their electricity bill when the solar system generates more electricity than is used on site. The excess then goes back to the communal power grid. But I had a consultation with the homeowner in Southern California where they pay the highest electricity rates in the us. Mind you, they got their panels under the old net metering 2.0 out there in California where they’re able to see the value from the installation, but now there’s a new tariff and that’s NEM 3.0, which this caller says is a nightmare. And went on to complain about the officials always raising the glass ceiling and the expense of it all. And this consult probably went on for about an hour and I just let him vent. But we helped him find out that the only way for California rate payers to see any savings with their solar is by adding battery storage.

Liz Veazey:
Yeah, so Solar United Neighbors’ partner organization- You know, we work closely with Solar Rights Alliance and the California Solar and Storage Association or CALSSA, were both very involved, and a number of other community organizations and justice organizations and others across California were involved in trying to push for a better outcome in the proceedings that led to the NEM 3.0 that Jani was talking about. That’s an example of, I would say, a relatively bad outcome in terms of a state regulatory proceeding.
But we have stood up and protected net metering and fair credit for solar in Florida. We were able to- there was legislation moving that was written by the investor-owned utility Florida Power and Light. And that legislation we fought really hard against had thousands and thousands of postcards and phone calls and emails and people, hundreds of people, testifying at hearings. The legislation ended up passing, though it was slightly less bad than the original proposal, but we were able to get the Governor of Florida, Ron DeSantis to veto that bill, and we haven’t seen that come back because of the fight that we put up a few years ago. So that’s an example of us really standing up for fair credit and protecting that.
And we’re working on doing that now in Puerto Rico where the Financial Oversight and Management Board or the FOMB that was set up related to Puerto Rico’s debt — and so it’s actually an entity of the US federal government — is trying to undo Law 10 that was passed in Puerto Rico late last year and then signed by the governor early this year, and they’re trying to undo that law, which would extend net metering through 2030. So we are working to intervene in that case and try to stand up for Law 10 and the laws of Puerto Rico and for the people of Puerto Rico to continue to have net metering and fair credit through at least 2030.
So yeah, those are some examples. So we are definitely involved in those fights and willing to help connect people to those fights. Sometimes we’re not always able to organize a campaign around bad rate policy. Sometimes people from a rural electric co-op or muni that just has a really bad solar policy contact us, and it’s hard because there’s not a ton that we can do, but we’re working to try to connect more people who reach out to us from rural electric co-ops to other people to try to help support them in learning and organizing and trying to push back, possibly run for their electric co-op boards to try to push for better policies.

John Farrell:
My last question then is if I want to reach SUN Solar Help Desk, if I need help with my solar installation, if I want to go solar, how do I reach you?

Jani Hale:
Yeah, John, please. I’ve shared our website, which is www.solarunitedneighbors.org. You can click on the resources tab and you’ll see in the dropdown menu, the Help Desk is there and we have four modes of communication. You can schedule a 15 minute call via our website. You can send an email to ask a question and submit a proposal or contract to be reviewed, or utility bill or production app reading. And our phone number is our general phone number, which is the area code 202-888-3601. That is our general, so United Neighbors phone number, and that will redirect you to a phone tree. Press option four for the Help Desk.

John Farrell:
Awesome. Well, Jani and Liz, thanks so much for joining me today to talk about the Solar Help Desk. I just think it’s lovely that there is this resource available for folks who want to go solar, have gone solar and have questions, want to join in fights for solar rights and solar policy. I’m on the board of Solar United Neighbors. Full disclosure. I think this organization is great, but I also think it’s important that so many more people know how to find you. I also am so excited to hear that when people Google Solar Help that y’all come up first. That’s great because that’s the kind of resource that people need. So thanks again for joining me. I really appreciate it.

Jani Hale:
Thanks, John.

Liz Veazey:
Thanks, John.

John Farrell:
Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Local Energy Rules, discussing solar consumer protection with Solar United Neighbors Help Desk Manager Jani Hale and Policy and Rural Energy Director Liz Veazey. On the show page, look for a link to SUN’s Help Desk and policy action resources, as well as prior podcasts with SUN policy advocates about their work on everything from utility mergers to solar for all. As a disclosure, I’m a board member of Solar United Neighbors and have been a fan for many years. Local Energy Rules is produced by myself and Maria McCoy with editing provided by audio engineer Drew Birschbach. Tune back into Local Energy Rules every two weeks to hear how we can take on concentrated power to transform the energy system. Until next time, keep your energy local and thanks for listening.