“A Little Odd, but A Little Amazing”: Adriana Valdez Young and the Secret Mall Apartment

Danny Caine 
One of my favorite things about living in Cleveland is the annual Cleveland International Film Festival. Held in the sprawling theater complex called Playhouse Square, the Fest brings unconventional, offbeat, and just plain interesting films that would otherwise be difficult to see. One of my favorite such films is Secret Mall Apartment, which I saw on the last day of the 2024 festival. After seeing this documentary, I left that palatial old theater feeling energized, inspired, and committed to building local power.

The film tracks a group of eight artists, activists, and troublemakers as they respond to the construction of Providence Place Mall, a colossal indoor shopping center constructed right in the middle of the city as an attempt to juice the local economy and bring more shopping activity back downtown. Not everyone was thrilled with the monumental effort to construct this mall. I’ll stay mum on the details of the hijinks for now, but suffice it to say these folks responded to the mall.

and the associated corporate development of beloved working class neighborhoods with humor and daring. In fact, one of the reasons I love the movie so much is that it’s about 90s performance art shenanigans, yes, but it’s also an inquiry into how sustainably grow a community with the mall is kind of a bad example. Even its architecture reflects the anti-community values the mall prioritizes and the

film doesn’t shy away from this. The movie is a rare thing, a serious investigation into what happens when community needs are ignored in favor of corporate interests. And it’s also very funny. Adriana Valdez Young is one of the original instigators of the secret mall apartment scheme. In Providence, Rhode Island in 2003, Adriana was a recent college graduate already immersed in efforts to build local power. Today, she still is.

An expert in inclusive design, she has spent decades researching and teaching it most recently as chair of the MFA in interaction design at the School of Visual Arts. Here to discuss local power, sustainable community-driven development, and what happened in that mall 20 years ago, she is today’s guest on Building Local Power.

Adriana Valdez Young, are so excited to have you on Local Power. Welcome.

Adriana
Awesome, great to be here, Danny.

Danny Caine 
before we get into the nitty gritty, would love to have you just kind of set the scene in Providence 2003 Tell us about who you were, what you were doing, what you were interested in, what kind of communities you ran how did the Providence Place Mall kind of loom over all of this?

Adriana 
Yeah, awesome. So I was a young person in my early twenties. I just graduated from Brown. I’d studied Latin American history and Russian studies. while I was in school, I had done some work in local immigrant and refugee communities in Providence, Rhode Island. And I ended up co-founding a nonprofit school, community school that taught English, but in the context of civic power, local organizing, and just having a voice in your neighborhood, in your communities. And so I was hanging around Providence. I ended up living in the area, moving from the east side of Providence. So for those who are not familiar with Providence, there’s an east side and there’s a west side. And the west side is the more historically marginalized abandoned, sometimes renovated mill buildings.

That’s where many immigrants and refugees have settled. East side of Providence is historically affluent. That’s where you have Brown and RISD and a lot of the wealth is concentrated there. There’s a downtown in between and a river and bifurcating. So East and West in the late nineties opened up Providence Place Shopping Mall, which I think we’re going to talk about today. It’s like this 1.4 million square foot behemoth that is really dividing the city. And so I was running this school, working with a lot of neighborhood based organizations to integrate education, not just as a service, but as a tool for building community, and power.

We had friends who were artists. We were living in in Olneyville, in the neighborhood where I ran my school. And we were just hanging out on a Saturday working on an art project. And we were listening to the radio. there was this ad for the Providence Place Mall. And the person in the ad was a woman, a shopper. And she was so ecstatic about the mall having opened because she was, it was going to make her life so much better.

She was going to get all of her shopping done for herself, for her kids, for her family. And the ad concluded with her speculating, how wonderful would it be if I could even live in the mall? And I turned to Mike and Jay and Andrew, I was like, you guys, what if we actually lived in the mall? And we were just like immediately delighted and thrilled with this idea. And we just started planning to live there. Yeah.

Danny Caine
That’s amazing. I love that story. Sounds like you’re doing really inspiring work. I was familiar with the kind of geography of Providence a little bit from the movie, but like the, I’m from Cleveland, which is also an East and West city split by a river. So it’s, really familiar with how geography can shape and interact with class and everything. And then you throw this gigantic shopping mall into the middle, literally into the middle of it. So this idea, let’s live at the mall. Tell us how that evolved and developed. What did you guys do?

Adriana
So one fun fact is that the side of the mall that faces Olneyville, the less affluent and other less affluent of the city is just walled off. So you cannot walk. It’s like a castle with one gate for a parking lot. So and it’s all the pedestrian access, kind of like the more beautiful storefront restaurant features are the affluent east side.

So we decided that we were gonna live for a week in the mall. And we called it Week in the Mall, actually, we branded it. And we decided that we were gonna bring no phones. I don’t think any of us, maybe Mike had a phone, like we didn’t have, there was before iPhones. cell phones. had one camera to share. each had a sketchbook and $20. And you know those foil blankets if you ever see someone coming back from a marathon?

Okay, so we each got one of those that we could like tuck into our bags. And that was like, basically it, those were the constraints. And the idea was like, could we survive? If this is the vision for our future ideal city, could we survive in it? What would it actually be like to inhabit it, to rely on it as an ecosystem, for our own survival? And, you it was pretty fun, I have to say.

Danny Caine 
And so then how did that evolve into the namesake of the movie, The Secret Mall Apartment?

Adriana
Yeah, so we were there for, we ended up living there for about four days. We did a lot of exploring, as you can imagine. The mall is a tremendously boring place, okay? It’s very boring, like nothing really happens there, you know, and we didn’t have any money. So if you don’t have any money, there’s really nothing to do with the mall. So we hung out a lot in Barnes and Nobles. I remember like reading books, naps. I got a shopping bag at Nordstrom’s that I just carried around, like looked like a shopper.

We tried on clothes a lot. We looked at every single object in Pottery Barn and Crate & Barrel and tried to like rank it and see like what would be the most important. If there was like an apocalypse, like what could we use for like weapons like restarting the, I don’t agriculture, et cetera. we did find some spaces. And one of them in particular was this very enticing space that was really built to be developed, frankly. It was like a loft apartment around 700 square tucked backside of the mall in between the parking lot, near the movie theater, Filene’s basement. It was a space, was kind of like a non-space, like a liminal space that had been sealed when the mall was constructed. And so nothing, it was kind of like intended to be abandoned.

And we thought that was so unfair and cruel because here we are living in a community where the historic buildings are being bulldozed to build strip malls. And there’s this strong ethos from real estate developers that it’s almost immoral not to develop every square foot

And so we thought, what if we did like a little detournement where we like turn the logic of real estate onto the mall itself and we could develop the space. honestly, wasn’t necessarily, it can seem like a prank, like, ha ha ha, you giant real estate developer and these like grand gestures of transforming our city and creating these new boundaries, putting businesses, like small businesses out.

We just thought like it was, I feel like it was pretty earnest and sincere. Like, wait a minute, we were artists and designers. Like this is just, this is not right. Like this space could be beautiful and wonderful. And so we made a pact that we would develop it into a kind of like a quote unquote, like luxury studio apartment. And then we worked on it for the course of the next four years.

Danny Caine 
And I don’t want to spoil too much of how the story played out. People are going to have to go see the movie to see the whole story. But like in watching the movie and reading about the story, I am curious it’s you’re right. People call it a prank. People call it a public art project. It’s it’s very hard to describe. It seems political to me. It’s definitely a response to the developers. Like you’re kind of assuming the role of developers responding to the mall developers.

Can you talk a little bit more about what you thought the motivations were for the project at the time?

Adriana 
Yeah, so, you know, at the time I was running this school for about 200 immigrant families, a lot of pressure and responsibility, extremely, was like very, it was a lot, right? It wasn’t, it wasn’t a job. It was a passion project. And it was about finding a way to apply my, my own politics and my own views working with communities in this like very inclusive way. And with the mall project, it was like, wait, we…

There’s a lot of excitement and energy you have as a young person, a young artist, but I just wanna do something. I just wanna change something. And yes, I’m going to all the protests at the statehouse for the Dream Act and for various changes to fight for more equity in our neighborhoods, in our city, but I just wanna do something like today.

You know, like I just want some gratification of like we’re gonna move a Couch in and we’re gonna like reclaim the space and it’s gonna be like this 21st century treehouse in an overdeveloped world where where we’ve been told that the the ideal way to participate as a citizen in our city is to be a consumer and it was it was pretty pretty satisfying and it’s not it was not a public art project. We didn’t even feel like it was a project. It was just like something that we did on the weekends, like nights and weekends kind of thing while we’re doing our other work. It became a public art project. It’s an accidental public art project. You know, the whole thing is just kind of like one happy accident after, after the I’m happy in a way it didn’t become a project until it became public. had this very secret pact that we were never going to tell anyone about this apartment.

And it was before social media, none of us had any impulse to share and get likes. And so to me, that’s almost like the best part of the project is not necessarily the space, but the sacred secrecy that we kept around it, I think is very precious commodity in our day now.

Danny Caine 
love the idea of just like something to do in the face of kind of political hopelessness. It kind of resonates with today. Like maybe when I’m feeling politically hopeless, I’ll just move a couch up an impossible staircase and see if that…

Adriana 
Yeah, yeah, totally. Well, don’t do that alone. Definitely get some help from your friends. Yeah.

Danny Caine
Right, yeah. Yeah, and form a secret pact about it too. That’s great. I love I’m curious about the broader political context once the mall opened. so the movie talks a lot about the Olneyville neighborhood, specifically a kind of compound called Eagle Square, which became, you know, this vibrant home for artists and musicians. then all of it became a target for developers in the context of this frenzy that you talk about to develop every inch of developable space. So can you talk about the neighborhood before and after the mall and this wave of development?

Adriana
Sure, The mall, in a way, Mike talks about it as like the first strike. It’s like when you’re planning an occupation, right, of a new territory. That’s the fort. That’s kind of like the castle. And then you can extend out your different zones until you control the area.

And Eagle Square really, it was just the algorithm determined, this place right here is the place where we can have people come and buy groceries and we can have this many parking spaces. And it was so sad because the developers really didn’t have, they were not was no admiration or consideration for the architecture or the history. We actually ended up getting a bunch of the flooring from Fort Thunder and it was in part of our apartment that was redeveloped, very respectfully and it was a beautiful renovation project for artists that still exists, Monahasset Mill. So wasn’t a total win by the mall developers and others. There was a mix, There was diversity of how development could be approached. And Eagle Square unfortunately was an extreme of just like thoughtless, careless demolition without any consideration for reuse. I don’t think that kind of development would, that people would get away with it today. I think there has been a lot of progress I don’t even think the word sustainable development or sustainability was in the common lexicon at that time.

Danny Caine 
That brings me to another question I had. seems like the movie does show some opposition to the mall it has people talking about how expensive it is and how it’s only for a certain type of people. I think I have two questions about that. first question, I think you’re kind of circling around If you had been in charge of this development, what would you have done differently? 1980s, 1990s, Providence is like, there’s no retail left, it’s kind of economically depressed, and the mall is kind of one answer to this. What would your answer have been help spark the economic life of Providence?

Adriana 
Sure. So after doing this project, I ended up getting a master’s in urban design. was like, what? This is where you can affect and with community. And so if I were to take on a project of thinking about this lot in downtown Providence, I’ve always considered the history. Like at one point it was a prison, it was operated by the university, but essentially it is this opportunity as a crossroads and a point of intersection and collaboration between East and West. And you think about like what vision what signal, like what symbol could this be for the future of the city? I instantly think about a space for collaboration, a learning space, a lab, a place for research. A lot of the research and intellectual property being developed at RISD or Brown, it’s literally on a hill in a tower. There’s like towers and hills.

So I feel like this would be the opportunity to be able to local businesses, local intellectual a way to bring together people with lived starting up small businesses, and people who have access to larger resources together. So I feel like it could have been

It would be a great opportunity. You know, they have to do something with the mall soon, probably, it’s not doing so well. I think it’s an opportunity to bring in like large and small partners, nonprofits, for-profits, and create some kind of like incubator, co-working space. See, there’s a shortage of affordable housing. Bringing residents into downtown, that would be the engine for more small local businesses to thrive.

So, not just buying things.

Danny Caine
Yeah, yeah, no, I love that.

It’s a really inspiring vision. And, you know, optimistically, maybe some of this will come into play as they answer the question of what to do with the mall.

So instead of like you’re talking about connections and a crossroads between East and West, and instead of that, we got literally a wall. And you mentioned already that you can’t walk into the mall from the West side. why do you think they built it that way? And they kind of accomplish those goals of shutting off the West side from downtown via this giant piece of architecture?

Adriana
Yeah, well, I always say that reality always defies the plan, right? So if people want to visit or want a way of accessing a space, they will figure it out. You know, part of the reason why there is that curved kind of fortressy wall to the west is that it runs along 95 interstate. So the idea was like, who wants to look out on the highway, right? So yeah, I just don’t think.

Again, sustainable development, that wasn’t something people talked about. Having people take public transportation or biking or walking, that kind of accessibility was not designed for in the plan. And that’s something that could be changed.

Danny Caine
Yeah, like it strikes me in the movie, they talk about moving the river and moving the train tracks, they never talk about moving the highway, Like that’s the one thing that can’t move. Okay, so I think I wanna pivot to the movie a little bit itself. It’s a really fun film. I think it’s inspiring. I felt So you had this pact of secrecy. And like, eventually when it became public, Michael Townsend was the only one who got identified as part of this project until the movie came out. So for the seven other people related with the project, why did you all decide to come forward and what’s the genesis of the movie project itself?

Adriana
Yeah, well, Mike was the only one who got arrested. So his name was on the public record. I didn’t hide the project. I talked about it, but more in a research context. I was really interested in of public spaces, but like, who really cares about that? So nobody was really, I do, you do.

Danny Caine 
For the record, we do too.

Adriana
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you guys do too, right? But not in terms of like the mass media. We had been approached by many, many different people who make TV shows, that kind of thing. They’re like, can we make a thing based on your story? And was really compelling. It also didn’t, it felt like also fresh and new. I think it’s actually perfect that it took about 20 years of time to marinate between actually doing the project and seeing how things have played out in the city, artist communities and immigrant communities, et cetera. And we just really love Jeremy Workman, the director.

He’s a great documentary filmmaker. He is genuinely thoughtful and caring and he makes wonderful stories about people who are like a little odd, but a little amazing. And so we’re like, I think this is the person that we want to work with.

Danny Caine 
As an audience member, I think you made the right choice. Like I said, the movie is great. So in a fun little twist, actually the day after this podcast is going to be released, the public premiere of the movie is going to happen at Providence Place it strikes me that there’s all kind of narrative goodness in that fact. So tell me your thoughts and impressions of premiering this movie at the mall where it all happened.

Adriana 
It’s a little bit weird, surreal, in fact, like a dream, for so long, well, the mall was really not happy when they first found out about the apartment. I think in retrospect, they missed a big opportunity, actually. know, the economy then wasn’t what it is now. And I think that they could take this as an opportunity in thinking about reinventing the mall, like long-term and having more collaborations with artists, I think it would actually bake into a nice sustainable business model. I think that it’s so fun that it’s showing at the mall, because people can literally be like, where is it? Like how, it would take me like, would it take me like two minutes if I were to just like go out and get some popcorn and then start like opening some doors? Yeah, now that I know that I can ignore these like…

Danny Caine 
Pulling on some doors.

Adriana
you know, the security buzzers or something. I don’t know, maybe things have changed since then. It’s probably more secure. But I think that’s so, that’s very exciting.

Danny Caine 
Aside from the theater and going out into the food court and trying some doors, what else do want people to take away from the movie after they see it?

Adriana
Oh, I just want them to, a few things. One, it’s just a nice reminder, I think of like what life was like before phones, before smartphones and social media. Like, wow, these people are just like hanging out. funny, because I think the movie’s very boring for obvious reasons, because I’m like, it’s my life. I’m like, oh my God, what? I know what’s gonna happen. This is so boring. We’re just like walking, I know we’re in the food court, we’re walking around, but life.

I think life was actually like that more. We were just like wandering around and having conversations, like sitting around and talking about things. I think it’s really hard. Like anytime I go to a restaurant or if I’m in public transportation or whatever, like people are just looking at their phones. There isn’t a lot of opportunity for any kind of like deep thinking and reflection time. Our minds have really like been out of that for a while. So enjoy and maybe be inspired to take a break from your screens and hang out with your friends with no plan, explore your city, find underutilized spaces that might be hidden in plain sight. And especially if it’s about like, you know what, maybe we can just offer this service or maybe we can connect these people with this kind of resource. It doesn’t mean that you have to start an NGO and apply for a grant or do like, what are some small things? What are the things that me and my friends know how to do and are good at and love doing and how can that possibly be a benefit my community?

Danny Caine 
I think if people are looking for a definition of building local power, those last few sentences are just about perfect. In the background of all this, you’re doing amazing community work with your schools in Onlyville. And it seems like you’re really motivated by this idea of building local power and positive change your community. So can you just talk about what you’ve been doing in the years since the mall apartment and how you’ve continued that idea of building local power through your work and your life?

Adriana
Yeah, so I really focused on urban design as a medium for bringing people together and leveling the playing field between like big capital and So I’ve worked on a bunch of different community centered design projects, the public spaces buildings in London, in the US. And I run, I actually am the chair of the MFA in Interaction Design, School of Visual Arts. So I get to train and support the next generation of interaction designers to be ethical, inclusive, centered, which I think is our future even more as power is being taken away from us. And what else have I been up to? I had a son and we actually have our own projects where we collect People can write to us with something that they’ve lost and we will write a story, like a fantastical story for where this thing ended up and any money they give us, we directly give to immigrants and refugees that we meet on the streets of New York City. Because that was something where we were feeling like really powerless over the summer. Like, oh my gosh, we’re seeing all these families who have immigrated. And my family is actually from Venezuela. So was meeting all these people who are coming from Venezuela. And I turned to my son, was like, what are we going to do? Like, they’ve lost everything. And we sometimes people just lose like, oh, I lost my sock or like, oh, I was sad I lost that watch or whatever. And it’s like, how can we channel that and connect these everyday experiences and to share channel some of our resources to people who really need it.

Danny Caine 
That’s a really inspiring story. If our listeners are interested in submitting objects, how do they go about and do that?

Adriana
you can just go to welikeresearch.com. That’s our website. And our project is called Lost Wonders.

Danny Caine
Cool, we will make sure to link to that in the show notes. It’s a beautiful project. Adriana Valdez Young, thank you so much. What a great conversation, a great movie. I find your work very inspiring and I really appreciate you coming on the show.

Adriana 
Thank you so much. So great to meet you, Danny, and really excited to learn about your work too.

Danny Caine 
This spring, Secret Mall Apartment is showing in theaters nationwide. Its theatrical premiere is March 21st at Providence Place Cinemas, just steps from where it all happened. In the following weeks, screenings are scheduled nearly everywhere from Maine to Mississippi to Los Angeles. Find a link to buy tickets in the show notes. Also in the show notes is a link to submit a story to Lost Wonders, Adriana’s collaborative project with her son using storytelling about lost objects to help immigrant families.

Also in the show notes is a link to a story by ILSR’s community broadband team about One Neighborhood Connects Community Wi-Fi, a local effort to bring free Wi-Fi to Providence’s Onlyville neighborhood where much of Secret Mall apartment takes place. Here at Building Local Power, we’d love to invite you, our listeners, into the conversation. If you have thoughts about this or other episodes, ideas for future guests, or if you just want to get in touch, send me a note at [email protected].

And as always, If you like what you hear, please like, subscribe, review, and share with your friends. This episode of Building Local Power was produced by me, Danny Kane, with the help of Reggie Rucker. I did the editing with help from Téa Noelle, who also composed the music. Thank you so much for listening, and see you in two weeks.

• Secret Mall Apartment screenings
• Submit a story to Lost Wonders
• One Neighborhood Connects Community Wi-Fi