{"id":18114,"date":"2023-05-03T05:00:26","date_gmt":"2023-05-03T09:00:26","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/ilsr.org\/?p=18114"},"modified":"2025-10-16T13:48:04","modified_gmt":"2025-10-16T17:48:04","slug":"composters-dreaming-investors-scheming","status":"publish","type":"article","link":"https:\/\/ilsr.org\/es\/article\/composting-for-community\/composters-dreaming-investors-scheming","title":{"rendered":"Composters Dreaming, Investors Scheming"},"template":"","class_list":["post-18114","article","type-article","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","article_type-podcasts-videos","initiatives-composting-for-community","topics-building-local-power","impact_areas-climate-and-environmental-justice","impact_areas-economic-justice","impact_areas-racial-equity","authors-luke-gannon","authors-reggie-rucker"],"acf":{"details":{"featured_image":979,"background_color":"tan","article_type":[34],"initiative":15,"display_event_fields":false,"start_date":null,"end_date":null,"start_time":null,"end_time":null,"time_zone":"America\/New_York","virtual_event":false,"location":"","topics":[58],"impact_areas":[21,16,20],"abstract":"Three composters face funding challenges in an effort to foster land stewardship.","authors_tax":[596,602]},"sidebar":{"title":"\u00cdndice"},"page_layout":[{"acf_fc_layout":"layout_wysiwyg","_acfe_flexible_toggle":"","component_wysiwyg":{"content":"<div class=\"ttr_start\"><\/div>\r\n<span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"><iframe id=\"blubrryplayer-1\" class=\"blubrryplayer\" title=\"Blubrry Podcast Player\" src=\"https:\/\/player.blubrry.com\/?media_url=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.blubrry.com%2Fbuilding_local_power%2Fcontent.blubrry.com%2Fbuilding_local_power%2F2023_05_03_BLP_181_Composters_Dreaming_Investors_Scheming.mp3&amp;podcast_link=https%3A%2F%2Filsr.org%2Fcomposters-dreaming-investors-scheming%2F#mode-Light&amp;border-000000&amp;progress-000000\" width=\"100%\" height=\"165\" frameborder=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\"><\/iframe><\/span>\r\n<p class=\"powerpress_links powerpress_links_mp3\" style=\"margin-bottom: 1px !important;\">Podcast (buildinglocalpower): <a class=\"powerpress_link_pinw\" title=\"Play in new window\" href=\"https:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/building_local_power\/content.blubrry.com\/building_local_power\/2023_05_03_BLP_181_Composters_Dreaming_Investors_Scheming.mp3\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow noopener\">Play in new window<\/a> | <a class=\"powerpress_link_d\" title=\"Download\" href=\"https:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/building_local_power\/content.blubrry.com\/building_local_power\/2023_05_03_BLP_181_Composters_Dreaming_Investors_Scheming.mp3\" rel=\"nofollow\" download=\"2023_05_03_BLP_181_Composters_Dreaming_Investors_Scheming.mp3\">Download<\/a> | <a class=\"powerpress_link_e\" title=\"Embed\" href=\"#\" rel=\"nofollow\">Embed<\/a><\/p>\r\n<p id=\"powerpress_embed_101209-buildinglocalpower\" class=\"powerpress_embed_box\" style=\"display: none;\"><input id=\"powerpress_embed_101209-buildinglocalpower_t\" style=\"width: 70%;\" readonly=\"readonly\" type=\"text\" value=\"&lt;iframe src=&quot;https:\/\/player.blubrry.com\/?media_url=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.blubrry.com%2Fbuilding_local_power%2Fcontent.blubrry.com%2Fbuilding_local_power%2F2023_05_03_BLP_181_Composters_Dreaming_Investors_Scheming.mp3&amp;podcast_link=https%3A%2F%2Filsr.org%2Fcomposters-dreaming-investors-scheming%2F#mode-Light&amp;border-000000&amp;progress-000000&quot; scrolling=&quot;no&quot; width=&quot;100%&quot; height=&quot;165&quot; frameborder=&quot;0&quot; id=&quot;blubrryplayer-2&quot; class=&quot;blubrryplayer&quot; title=&quot;Blubrry Podcast Player&quot;&gt;&lt;\/iframe&gt;\" \/><\/p>\r\n<p class=\"powerpress_links powerpress_subscribe_links\">Subscribe: <a class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_rss\" title=\"Subscribe via RSS\" href=\"https:\/\/ilsr.org\/feed\/buildinglocalpower\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow noopener\">RSS<\/a><\/p>\r\n&nbsp;\r\n\r\nIn 2022, in the small town of Alpine, California, Raquel Nu\u00f1ez founded Cuatro Vientos, a community composting project that brings environmental and cultural solutions to the community. In this episode of Building Local Power, Raquel, and her partners Iriani Lopez and Aedan Lagillardaie, share how it has been a dream come true to reconnect with their heritage and the land through composting. However, over the last year, they have quickly learned that their biggest barrier to sustaining this dream is funding.\r\n\r\nJessica Toth, Executive Director of the Solana Center, an organization driving environmental innovation, joins the second half of the episode to outline how food waste is both an environmental and a social issue and why the very people implementing solutions to lessen our carbon footprint \u2014 while providing jobs and education in a circular food system \u2014 are underfunded. Despite misaligned interests on the part of investors, environmental stewards, and policymakers, Jessica makes the case for economic incentives that can help the United States address the 40 million tons of food waste created every year in this country alone.\r\n<div id=\"accordionname64\" class=\"panel-group\">\r\n<div class=\"panel panel-default panel-even\">\r\n<div class=\"panel-heading\">\r\n\r\n&nbsp;\r\n<h5><i class=\"icon-minus primary-color\"><\/i><i class=\"icon-plus\"><\/i>Related Resources<\/h5>\r\n&nbsp;\r\n\r\n<\/div>\r\n<div id=\"collapse640\" class=\"panel-collapse collapse \">\r\n<div class=\"panel-body postclass\">\r\n\r\n<a href=\"https:\/\/ilsr.org\/poster-what-is-composting\/\">What is Composting?\u00a0<\/a>\r\n\r\n<a href=\"https:\/\/ilsr.org\/composting-2022-census\/\">A Growing Movement: 2022 Community Composter Census<\/a>\r\n\r\n<a href=\"https:\/\/ilsr.org\/franchise-districts-composters\/\">Cities\u2019 Exclusive Agreements With Trash Collectors Are Holding Back Community Composters<\/a>\r\n\r\n<a href=\"https:\/\/solanacenter.org\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\" data-saferedirecturl=\"https:\/\/www.google.com\/url?q=https:\/\/solanacenter.org\/&amp;source=gmail&amp;ust=1683053143281000&amp;usg=AOvVaw2S-M695K7Fwl8rBtneEVi7\">Solana Center for Environmental Innovation\u2019s website<\/a>\r\n\r\nArticle about the\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/www.biocycle.net\/edible-nonedible-food-exchange\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\" data-saferedirecturl=\"https:\/\/www.google.com\/url?q=https:\/\/www.biocycle.net\/edible-nonedible-food-exchange\/&amp;source=gmail&amp;ust=1683053143281000&amp;usg=AOvVaw3W_36J--0V539j60-J2Jdt\">6-month pilot project<\/a> proving the benefits of food waste composting at a local site.\r\n\r\nJoint blog with the Solana Center and Closed Loop Partners investors about the need for <a href=\"https:\/\/www.closedlooppartners.com\/to-reduce-food-waste-investors-and-community-organizations-need-to-be-at-the-table\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\" data-saferedirecturl=\"https:\/\/www.google.com\/url?q=https:\/\/www.closedlooppartners.com\/to-reduce-food-waste-investors-and-community-organizations-need-to-be-at-the-table\/&amp;source=gmail&amp;ust=1683053143281000&amp;usg=AOvVaw0Zqgr14Wj8QeS-yZkdg2WM\">funding composting programs.<\/a>\r\n\r\nScheduling for San Diego County sites to sign up for a\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/calendly.com\/solana-center?amp%3Bqid=\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\" data-saferedirecturl=\"https:\/\/www.google.com\/url?q=https:\/\/calendly.com\/solana-center?amp%253Bqid%3D&amp;source=gmail&amp;ust=1683053143281000&amp;usg=AOvVaw3rZYTXUyI0XTSnHom8Rl-f\">1\/2-hour compost consultation.<\/a>\r\n\r\nThe Solana Center\u2019s <a href=\"https:\/\/solanacenter.org\/healthy-soils-program\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\" data-saferedirecturl=\"https:\/\/www.google.com\/url?q=https:\/\/solanacenter.org\/healthy-soils-program\/&amp;source=gmail&amp;ust=1683053143281000&amp;usg=AOvVaw3-8z5PmRnGJdJYhzD9qVje\">Healthy Soils Program<\/a> to provide technical assistance and state funding for on-farm composting and other regenerative agriculture practices.\r\n\r\n<\/div>\r\n<\/div>\r\n<\/div>\r\n<div class=\"panel panel-default panel-odd\">\r\n<div class=\"panel-heading\">\r\n\r\n&nbsp;\r\n<h5><i class=\"icon-minus primary-color\"><\/i><i class=\"icon-plus\"><\/i>Transcript<\/h5>\r\n&nbsp;\r\n\r\n<\/div>\r\n<div id=\"collapse641\" class=\"panel-collapse collapse \">\r\n<div class=\"panel-body postclass\">\r\n<table>\r\n<tbody>\r\n<tr>\r\n<td width=\"319\">Reggie:<\/td>\r\n<td width=\"319\">Hello, and welcome to Building Local Power. I\u2019m your co-host, Reggie Rucker. And we\u2019re back with episode five of this season, where we are highlighting frontline stories in the fight against monopoly power by talking with people all over the country who are actively engaging in building more equitable, thriving local economies. I\u2019m here with my co-host, Luke Gannon. Say, what\u2019s up, Luke?<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<tr>\r\n<td width=\"319\">Luke:<\/td>\r\n<td width=\"319\">Hey, what\u2019s up Reggie? How\u2019s it going?<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<tr>\r\n<td width=\"319\">Reggie:<\/td>\r\n<td width=\"319\">So Luke, I\u2019ve been thinking about the way this season has taken shape so far. We started with a conversation about dollar stores, which led to a conversation about the local grocery stores that are being threatened by these giant corporate chains. Which led to a conversation about the local farms. And then the independent fisheries that are being threatened by deep-pocketed private equity investors. And the sequence started to remind me of, do you remember that old nursery rhyme of the old lady who swallowed a fly and then she ended up swallowing a dog to chase the cat, to chase the mouse, to chase the something to chase the fly. Do you remember that?<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<tr>\r\n<td width=\"319\">Luke:<\/td>\r\n<td width=\"319\">It\u2019s been a long time. Hold up, let me look it up real quick.<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<tr>\r\n<td width=\"319\">Reggie:<\/td>\r\n<td width=\"319\">So, yeah. So, look it up real quick. But that\u2019s what this reminds me of. It\u2019s this story of these corporate interests, that are swallowing up these pieces of the food chain, from the fishing docks to the farms, to the grocery stores, bit by bit.<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<tr>\r\n<td width=\"319\"><\/td>\r\n<td width=\"319\">And today\u2019s episode brings us to the end of this chain. Or really, the beginning of the loop if we build our communities and economy correctly. And that\u2019s with composting. In this episode, we are diving into the story of how private equity investment is threatening the sustainability, and really limiting the potential, of community scaled composters. Which have so many benefits for our local communities. So to get into it, throw it back over to you, Luke.<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<tr>\r\n<td width=\"319\">Luke:<\/td>\r\n<td width=\"319\">Wow. All right. That is a very apt metaphor. After the lady eats the fly, then the spider, then the bird, and all the way to eating the cow, the lady dies. She has simply consumed too much. For all of those interested in teaching your children a little bit about private equity swallowing up the whole market, check out this nursery rhyme.<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<tr>\r\n<td width=\"319\"><\/td>\r\n<td width=\"319\">But today we are joined by three community-scaled composters who started their own small scale composting program Cuatro Vientos. Let\u2019s meet them.<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<tr>\r\n<td width=\"319\">Raquel N.:<\/td>\r\n<td width=\"319\">My name is Raquel Nu\u00f1ez and I\u2019m from Cuatro Vientos, and I\u2019m the owner and founder of the composting project there. And we\u2019re out in Alpine, California, which is East San Diego County.<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<tr>\r\n<td width=\"319\">Iriani L.-H.:<\/td>\r\n<td width=\"319\">Name is Iriani Lopez Hernandez. And I am part of the Cuatro Vientos team. I am the site operator.<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<tr>\r\n<td width=\"319\">Aiden L.:<\/td>\r\n<td width=\"319\">I am Aiden Lagierde. I am also part of Cuatro Vientos. And I am the lead volunteer slash gardener.<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<tr>\r\n<td width=\"319\">Luke:<\/td>\r\n<td width=\"319\">Raquel bought land just before the pandemic and ultimately founded Cuatro Vientos in 2022. But the beginning of their story can be traced back to a TEDx talk when Raquel was in grad school.<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<tr>\r\n<td width=\"319\">Raquel N.:<\/td>\r\n<td width=\"319\">When I was in grad school, we had these TEDx talks. And so I went to one of them, and Farmscape, out of LA, was there. And I don\u2019t know if you know about them. But from what I remember, it\u2019s like the grandson of one of the orange juice companies in Florida, or whatever. So he comes from this corporate farming background. And somehow he ends up in LA and he has this initiative where he\u2019s trying to get people to farm their front yards, in LA. To help with food shortage and all this stuff.<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<tr>\r\n<td width=\"319\"><\/td>\r\n<td width=\"319\">And so then I was really inspired by that. And I took it back to my house in San Diego. And I always wanted to farm my front yard in my urban neighborhood. And then one of our colleagues\u2026 Well, she\u2019s a friend too, not just a colleague. But she\u2019s also part of the same grant over at Madre Sierra.<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<tr>\r\n<td width=\"319\"><\/td>\r\n<td width=\"319\">They have a farm in Escondido, which is North County San Diego. She started hosting different workshops. So, like, seed swaps. And then one year she had this whole rotations, where you could sign up for different conferences. Even though I wasn\u2019t really a gardener or anything yet, I went to an intro to biodynamic farming. And there was an intro to composting. And so I, little by little, I try to start getting at my house in the city.<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<tr>\r\n<td width=\"319\"><\/td>\r\n<td width=\"319\">For work-work? I\u2019m an educator, I\u2019m a consultant, and I work with school districts across the country. And so, I\u2019m gone a lot. So with the pandemic, we weren\u2019t traveling. So I got to stay at home, finally, and try to put some of the stuff that I had learned into practice. And it\u2019s always also been a dream of mine to own a ranch. My grandma had a little ranch out in the Imperial Valley. Which is still in California, but on the way to Arizona. And then I had family in Arizona, who had little ranches or whatever. So I always wanted a ranch.<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<tr>\r\n<td width=\"319\">Luke:<\/td>\r\n<td width=\"319\">Raquel always dreamed of having a ranch. And Aiden, the lead volunteer gardener, had experience and knowledge from his childhood and work life to bring to Quatro Vientos.<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<tr>\r\n<td width=\"319\">Aiden L.:<\/td>\r\n<td width=\"319\">I grew up rural, and composting was just something we did. And we grew a lot of our own food because\u2026 There\u2019s food deserts. In the city and rural. You\u2019d think that with all these farms around, there\u2019d be accessible produce, but there really isn\u2019t. So, I grew up doing that. And I moved down to the city for high school and it was\u2026 It\u2019s not as accessible to grow your own food? There isn\u2019t really space, unless you\u2019re lucky enough to have a yard. So I kind of stopped doing that for a while. And then, I went to school for sustainable agriculture. Which got me back into the practices, and I practice composting on my own. And then I work in habitat restoration. So I work with a lot of native plants.<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<tr>\r\n<td width=\"319\"><\/td>\r\n<td width=\"319\">When the pandemic started, I was approached by a local nonprofit in National City, which is adjacent to San Diego. To lead a community garden for them. It was transforming this place that was completely overgrown with invasive weeds, and trash, all this stuff. So, we incorporated restoration, and bioremediation. And then we\u2019re growing food to distribute to a local food bank.<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<tr>\r\n<td width=\"319\">Luke:<\/td>\r\n<td width=\"319\">Aiden\u2019s experience in sustainable agriculture and restorative land practices complimented Raquel\u2019s knowledge from learning how to compost at her home in the city. But this was before they had acquired land. Or were working together.<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<tr>\r\n<td width=\"319\">Raquel N.:<\/td>\r\n<td width=\"319\">So, there I was farming my little front yard in the city. And I was like, \u201cWow, this is a lot of work.\u201d When I was composting, pretty much just piles. I had tried some of the fancy rollers. But I wasn\u2019t ever making soil. So then I just started. I got an old tree\u2026 The big wooden ones that the trees come in? And just started throwing everything in there. And then I would turn it every once in a while. Then started gardening out. And then I just remember thinking, \u201cIf I wait till I retire to get a ranch, I\u2019m going to be too\u2026 I have to do it now while I have energy.\u201d So then, pandemic boards, start looking, talk to a realtor. I thought maybe we would come up with a two or a three year plan. And they were like, \u201cNo, we could get you into something now.\u201d<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<tr>\r\n<td width=\"319\"><\/td>\r\n<td width=\"319\">And it just clicked really fast. So then I bought this three acres in Alpine, California. And as soon as I did that, my friend Jessica, over at Mother Theater, because I had gone to some of her workshops, I was connected to other people who were working on her farm. Or starting other little projects. One of the women that I had met through Jessica, Esmeralda Hummingbird, I think had just been hired by CCGS to be the regional coordinator. And she\u2019s like, \u201cHey, we got this grant. Are you interested in learning about how to compost more?\u201d So I was like, \u201cYeah, I would totally be down.\u201d And so I filled out the application to do it. I had just moved in, so I didn\u2019t have anything going, or anything.<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<tr>\r\n<td width=\"319\"><\/td>\r\n<td width=\"319\">And I got the grant. And when I started going to the meetings, everyone else was community farms, they were already well established. And I was like, \u201cI don\u2019t even know what I\u2019m doing. I don\u2019t have anything.\u201d And I kept saying, \u201cAre you sure I\u2019m supposed to be here?\u201d<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<tr>\r\n<td width=\"319\"><\/td>\r\n<td width=\"319\">And so that\u2019s how we got started. So we really started from scratch. From nothing.<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<tr>\r\n<td width=\"319\">Luke:<\/td>\r\n<td width=\"319\">The three acres that Raquel bought is 45 minutes outside of San Diego, in Alpine, California. And there\u2019s no public transportation. The need to make money to sustain each of them, and their operation is inescapable.<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<tr>\r\n<td width=\"319\">Raquel N.:<\/td>\r\n<td width=\"319\">So the only reason why money feels like an issue to us, is because it\u2019s like, \u201cWell, how do we sustain this?\u201d Because I\u2019m a little bit further out from the city, for her to come and help me, there\u2019s gas, and there\u2019s things involved. And so we do need some monies. And we\u2019re at the point where we\u2019re trying to figure that out.<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<tr>\r\n<td width=\"319\">Luke:<\/td>\r\n<td width=\"319\">As they work on ways to keep up financially. Raquel and the other leaders of Cuatro Vientos continue putting in a lot of work on the farm. And their dreams of what Cuatro Vientos can be, are endless<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<tr>\r\n<td width=\"319\">Raquel N.:<\/td>\r\n<td width=\"319\">Cuatro Vientos, composting is part of it. But we eventually do want to have garden. And be producing food. We plan to have animals. And also, where we are in Alpine? It\u2019s traditionally, or historically known, as it\u2019s a very white town. And as a woman of color, it feels a little hostile, driving around in our neighborhood sometimes. But as I\u2019ve been living there, you look, and there are other people there. But I feel like we\u2019re a little bit invisible in terms of the culture or the reputation.<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<tr>\r\n<td width=\"319\">Luke:<\/td>\r\n<td width=\"319\">Raquel and her team began looking for businesses to partner with in Alpine, and in neighboring towns.<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<tr>\r\n<td width=\"319\">Raquel N.:<\/td>\r\n<td width=\"319\">And so part of our goal has been to outreach. To try to find businesses, community partners, who are interested in connecting with the land, connecting with each other. And trying to change the narrative of what our community is about.<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<tr>\r\n<td width=\"319\"><\/td>\r\n<td width=\"319\">So right now we have two community partners. Our first partner, she is in Descanso, which is the other tiny little neighboring town to us. And they\u2019re a Mexican restaurant, Spanish speaking. So that\u2019s been really fun, to get to know them. And then we have our second community partner, which is a local cafe.<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<tr>\r\n<td width=\"319\">Luke:<\/td>\r\n<td width=\"319\">Iriani is the site operator. And has used her experience as an educator to help expand the reach of Cuatro Vientos.<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<tr>\r\n<td width=\"319\">Iriani L.-H.:<\/td>\r\n<td width=\"319\">I got hired in January. But I didn\u2019t start working till February. And another thing that we\u2019re doing with the land, other than composting, is we offer the space for the community to use. For cultural ceremonies. Or cultural workshops. Just in general, a place of gathering. So that was one of the things, since we couldn\u2019t start the composting aspect of the grant or the proposal, we focused on that, and just tended to the land.<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<tr>\r\n<td width=\"319\"><\/td>\r\n<td width=\"319\">My regular job is that I\u2019m a educator, and I teach high school students about habitat restoration. So that was one of the things that we were doing in the meantime. Is identifying the non-native species, removing them. We weren\u2019t planting yet. We were just on the removal part. And then again, bringing on the community to the land. To offer up a space. Because it\u2019s something that you can\u2019t necessarily\u2026 I mean you can do it in the city, but it\u2019s a whole other experience. And a whole other level of being able to bring community out.<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<tr>\r\n<td width=\"319\"><\/td>\r\n<td width=\"319\">We\u2019re focusing on composting. We\u2019re also still trying to do community engagement by offering the space for groups. Especially folks that are doing Indigenous ceremony, community work. We were able to have a really good volunteer day where we actually\u2026 Not only non-native species. But we were able to plant a couple of native plants and then follow up with 10 mesquite trees. And also during the event, we were able to work on the compost, learn more.<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<tr>\r\n<td width=\"319\">Luke:<\/td>\r\n<td width=\"319\">To Raquel, the land has always been about building community. And returning to Indigenous values where humans and the earth live in harmony.<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<tr>\r\n<td width=\"319\">Raquel N.:<\/td>\r\n<td width=\"319\">Well, I know that for me, just from the beginning, it\u2019s been interesting. Because it\u2019s like, I purchased this land, but the goal for me is always, \u201cHow do I create community through land?\u201d So it\u2019s just weird that a person owns it.<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<tr>\r\n<td width=\"319\"><\/td>\r\n<td width=\"319\">And so it\u2019s always been an interest of mine to learn more about Indigenous farming practices, reconnecting with the land. And so, environmental justice from that standpoint is something that I think is one of my guiding principles of, \u201cOkay, native restoration right now is, along with composting, is our\u2026 They\u2019re our two big focuses right now. Of learning about what belongs there. And then once we get those plants in there, well what do we do with them? Because they thrive when it\u2019s in connection with humans. So how do we use them? How do we process them? How do we make sure that there\u2019s that reciprocity between us and them?<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<tr>\r\n<td width=\"319\"><\/td>\r\n<td width=\"319\">And so, just having a place where we get to learn these things? From each other, with whatever ancestral wisdom and knowledge we\u2019ve been able to hold onto, or reclaim, has been really fun and important. Also then bringing into our own Indigenous ceremonial practices is also\u2026 It is environmental justice because it\u2019s not like we can say, \u201cHey, we want to have a tipi ceremony. Can we rent out the neighborhood park?\u201d You can\u2019t do that kind of stuff there. So we actually have a place where we can have the ceremonies that we want to have, without worrying about a governmental agency telling us what we can or can\u2019t do.<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<tr>\r\n<td width=\"319\"><\/td>\r\n<td width=\"319\">We\u2019re also allowing nature to be itself too, and rejuvenate, and give back those nutrients to itself.<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<tr>\r\n<td width=\"319\">Luke:<\/td>\r\n<td width=\"319\">When I listened to Raquel, Iriani, and Aiden\u2019s story, I realized that the beauty of small scale farming and composting is that it allows them to be creative. And innovative. And to return to ancestral knowledge and wisdom that for generations has been forcefully removed from our education systems. Their vision and their dedication to making this space, that is environmentally and culturally sustainable and just, is what makes community composting unique. Thank you all for being on the show. Now I\u2019m going to pass it to my co-host, who has the best laugh and fabulous smile, Reggie Rucker.<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<tr>\r\n<td width=\"319\">Reggie:<\/td>\r\n<td width=\"319\">So one of the great things about being at a union workplace, is I don\u2019t have to worry about being susceptible to flattery. I\u2019ve been known to hand out money for compliments. So, thank you, Luke.<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<tr>\r\n<td width=\"319\"><\/td>\r\n<td width=\"319\">So normally we take this time during the break to ask for a donation, even if it\u2019s just a small one. $5, $10, really, any amount goes a long way in helping us to do the important work of advocating for folks like Raquel, Iriani, and Aiden, to sustain a really vibrant local economies and communities, and our democracy. And if you can make that donation, please head over to ilsr.org\/donate, and contribute whatever small amount you can. We are truly grateful.<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<tr>\r\n<td width=\"319\"><\/td>\r\n<td width=\"319\">But these days I like to focus on the one thing you could do that would cost you nothing. Right now\u2026 And I mean that\u2026 As soon as I\u2019m done here, pause this episode and share this or another favorite Building Local Power episode with a friend or family member, and encourage them to listen. If you share this with one person you\u2019re close to, and then they share it with one person\u2026 Maybe they share it with one person? That\u2019s how change happens. That\u2019s how we can start changing the minds of citizens, and voters. And ultimately, the policy makers, who we need to create the proper policies. So small scale community composters, have a fair shot again to thrive. That\u2019s all we\u2019re advocating for, is a fair chance. Instead of privileging these corporate giants and big-moneyed investors. So that\u2019s our break. Pause this episode, share it with someone you\u2019re close to. Encourage them to listen, and then come right back for the interview. Thanks so much.<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<tr>\r\n<td width=\"319\">Luke:<\/td>\r\n<td width=\"319\">For the second half of this episode, we invited Jessica Toth. Who is the executive director of the Solana Center, an environmental innovation nonprofit that works diligently to address environmental issues.<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<tr>\r\n<td width=\"319\">Reggie:<\/td>\r\n<td width=\"319\">Jessica, thank you so much for taking some time out to talk with us today.<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<tr>\r\n<td width=\"319\"><\/td>\r\n<td width=\"319\">For the listeners who are new to Building Local Power, and what a bigger picture sense of what the composting industry looks like, we have a bunch of great resources over@ilsr.org. So we\u2019re going to put those into the show notes for this episode. We have earlier episodes of BLP that really gives a great look into composting, and the benefits, and the opportunities that exist in the sector. And also we just released a community compostor census. We\u2019re definitely going to add that to the show notes for this episode. It gives a great look into some of the challenges, and also some of the opportunities that community composts are facing. And it really gives the bigger, holistic, data behind the story that you just heard with Raquel, Iriani, and Aiden, as they get Quatro Vientos off the ground.<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<tr>\r\n<td width=\"319\"><\/td>\r\n<td width=\"319\">And that really leads to the conversation we want to have with you today, Jessica. To help us get a sense of the economics behind community composting. And composting at large. To get a better sense of the financial model, that either makes this work or doesn\u2019t make this work as a profitable sector. And how we think about getting more investment into the space. And especially into the local community composting space. So again, Jessica, thank you for taking some time to talk with us about this today.<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<tr>\r\n<td width=\"319\"><\/td>\r\n<td width=\"319\">The first thing I want to ask you about is when we hear the story of Raquel, Iriana, and Aiden, in their composting business that they\u2019re getting underway\u2026 They talk so passionately about all the beautiful things that they want to create in that space. But, of course, those things take money. It takes capital. Can you talk to us a little bit about your experience? What you\u2019ve seen in community composting, the composting space? And the discrepancies between small community composters, and the type of funding, backing, that they get. Versus maybe those that are larger-scale operations? Can you give us a sense of that financing landscape in the industry?<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<tr>\r\n<td width=\"319\">Jessica T.:<\/td>\r\n<td width=\"319\">Thank you for having me.<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<tr>\r\n<td width=\"319\"><\/td>\r\n<td width=\"319\">And yes, I think there is a discrepancy. But I would start by saying, actually, that there\u2019s a difficulty in funding any type of composting. And it\u2019s such a shame, because composting is a really beautiful, incredible thing. Not just at the boots on the ground composting level. But it\u2019s from an environmental perspective. Obviously nature\u2019s a closed-loop system. So commercial composters, they actually have a hard time making ends meet as well. In fact, I would say that from anecdotal conversations and experience, the sale of their finished product is not \u201cwhether they make their money,\u201d it\u2019s actually the tipping fees. And so the waste product has more value for commercial composters. And they look for grants and loans.<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<tr>\r\n<td width=\"319\"><\/td>\r\n<td width=\"319\">But at the commercial composting level, the state of California\u2026 We\u2019re very fortunate here, where there\u2019s funding that\u2019s available, from the state? We administer, at Solana Center, the Healthy Soils program. Which provides grants. But essentially, it\u2019s widely recognized that community composting is a labor of passion.<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<tr>\r\n<td width=\"319\"><\/td>\r\n<td width=\"319\">Even at the residential level, you have local jurisdictions, in local cities, that are subsidizing compost bins. So every part of the process, commercial, community. And community-scale also, in my mind, includes what I call on-farm. We teach an on-farm composting course. It\u2019s a multi-week course. But the uptake of that is relatively small. In other words, there\u2019s interest in the course. But when the rubber meets the road, it\u2019s difficult for farmers to make a pencil out. For manure management, sometimes that is an option that makes economic sense. But I think that\u2019s really the crux of it, is that the economics aren\u2019t there. And if I were to step back to the really big picture\u2026 And only speaking for my region\u2026 But the tipping fee for waste to our landfill\u2026 So, \u201ctipping fee\u201d being the cost to discard one ton of material in our landfill, is on the order of $40 per ton.<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<tr>\r\n<td width=\"319\"><\/td>\r\n<td width=\"319\">And the cost to compost a ton of food waste, is on the order of $90. So how do you square that? Or close that loop? When it\u2019s more than twice as expensive to do the right thing, and to compost material, when you could put it in the landfill? So that permeates every part of life. Every part of business, I suppose.<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<tr>\r\n<td width=\"319\"><\/td>\r\n<td width=\"319\">If you think of a mom and pop restaurant within margins, who want to do the right thing, how do you incentivize them to put their food waste, and get a larger bin to have their material go to composting, when it\u2019s more expensive than the gray bin? We have color-coded bins here in California. So, that\u2019s the crux of the problem, really, is the economics in my view. But you really have to be passionate about, and feel strongly, that this is the right way to go. Now there are definitely are commercial composters out there who are making a business of it. Contamination\u2019s an enormous issue for them that you don\u2019t necessarily have at the community composting level. Because those who are discarding their organic material are very motivated to keep the waste stream clean. At every level, there are issues that don\u2019t pencil out well from a financial point of view.<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<tr>\r\n<td width=\"319\">Reggie:<\/td>\r\n<td width=\"319\">So hearing that\u2026 Then, Jessica, I think the question that arises for me is, we\u2019ve been doing a little bit of research and have started to see private equity making their way into this space, seeing that there\u2019s profit to be made. Is that something that you\u2019ve seen, experienced? And if it is, what do you think might be accounting for that, as you described, sort of it being just a tough economic model to begin with?<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<tr>\r\n<td width=\"319\">Jessica T.:<\/td>\r\n<td width=\"319\">That\u2019s a very good question. Quite a few years ago, pre-pandemic, I had a discussion with a private equity investment firm. They were investing heavily in anaerobic digestion across the country. And I tried to make the case with them to consider: at its simplest level, it\u2019s a process that takes those nutrients\u2026. So, when you harvest produce from the land, it pulls the minerals and nutrients along with it. And so that\u2019s why we want to compost it and put it back on the soil. Because the minerals and nutrients.<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<tr>\r\n<td width=\"319\"><\/td>\r\n<td width=\"319\">But another alternative is to actually extract that for renewable natural gas. And that\u2019s what anaerobic digestion does. It extracts the value. It leaves about 90% of the solids as a digestate. But it\u2019s mostly denuded. So, it\u2019s a tidy process. And that was one of the things that I heard from investors. Or this investor that I talked to at this big firm. It\u2019s really, almost literally, in a box? And it\u2019s very, very tidy. And it creates renewable natural gas, instead of finished compost. The investment dollars that were going to anaerobic digestion\u2026 I mean, their priority was, anaerobic digestion was number one, biogas number two, and composting number three.<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<tr>\r\n<td width=\"319\"><\/td>\r\n<td width=\"319\">And the other thing to consider with that is, that when I did an analysis using the EPAs WARM model\u2026 Which just looks at what the carbon footprint is of these different solutions\u2026 Was three times greater, more benefit, from the greenhouse gas savings when you compost, rather than anaerobic digestion. So from an environmental perspective, I would rather see compost. But, having said that, there is more investment to generate capital. Recently purchased a 200 million purchase of Atlas Organics, in South Carolina, which is a very big deal. And so there is a lot more attention to composting, which was what you started the discussion with.<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<tr>\r\n<td width=\"319\"><\/td>\r\n<td width=\"319\">And I think there\u2019s an amazing change in understanding. That organic waste, and very specifically food waste, is an issue. I\u2019ve seen that happen over my time focusing on this issue. I read a study that said: three years ago, about a third of the US population understood that food waste has an environmental impact? And now it\u2019s two thirds. In just three years, people have a much greater understanding that food waste is both an environmental issue, and a social issue. In fact, I would say my neighbors have now heard the term \u201cfood insecurity,\u201d when probably that wasn\u2019t true just a couple years ago. And so I think there\u2019s a greater spotlight. And to me, that\u2019s what is accounting for more funding in that space.<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<tr>\r\n<td width=\"319\"><\/td>\r\n<td width=\"319\">As you may know, in California, there\u2019s legislation that prevents organic material from going to landfill. And, along with that, has been greater investment from the state. And a requirement that no organic material can go to landfill, which means solutions with investment dollars are having to follow that regulation. So that\u2019s what I account for. I\u2019ve always been a believer that you want to encourage people to do the best that they can. And my tactic had been really to \u201cone compost bin at a time\u201d thing. But until this legislation passed, a couple years ago, that was really the kick in the seat of the pants to encourage infrastructure change at the local, regional, and the state level.<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<tr>\r\n<td width=\"319\"><\/td>\r\n<td width=\"319\">And I\u2019ll just wrap it up by that part of the question by saying, in our region, we still only have the ability to manage 12% of all the food waste we generate. And 33% of all the organic material. So there\u2019s less restrictions on landscaping materials. So 33%. So that means the rest of it\u2026 And when I say manage it, that\u2019s through composting, anaerobic digestion\u2026 The rest of it\u2019s got to go somewhere. And so the reality is we really need a mix of solutions. We need those community composters. We need people who are managing their own organic material, on their own site through residential composting as well.<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<tr>\r\n<td width=\"319\">Luke:<\/td>\r\n<td width=\"319\">Jessica, when you say \u201cin our region,\u201d do you mean in California? Or specifically in San Diego?<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<tr>\r\n<td width=\"319\">Jessica T.:<\/td>\r\n<td width=\"319\">I mean specifics to the San Diego region. So we have 3.3 million people in the county region. And we were behind the times for some reason. And I know some of those reasons. But we had less processing capabilities in our area than any of the five most populous areas in the state of California. So, LA, Fresno, Bay Area, they were all ahead of us, in terms of managing organic waste. And that was for historical reasons.<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<tr>\r\n<td width=\"319\">Reggie:<\/td>\r\n<td width=\"319\">You mentioned earlier that the state of California making it a priority to figure out solutions to food waste, has been helpful to bringing more investment to the sector? Because investors know at that point, that this is a commitment that the state has made to invest in these outcomes and in these solutions. And so they know that there\u2019s money to be made from it. Are there other similar solutions? How are you thinking about ways to bring more money into the sector so that all solutions have a chance to thrive? From the community composters to the commercial solutions?<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<tr>\r\n<td width=\"319\">Jessica T.:<\/td>\r\n<td width=\"319\">I don\u2019t know if I have an answer for that. But I\u2019ll describe a project that we undertook in 2014\/15. And that was, we identified a business, a restaurant. It\u2019s a fast food chain. It was opening its first location in San Diego area. And they contacted us and said, \u201cWell, where are we supposed to take our food waste?\u201d Because anywhere else that they have been in California\u2026 It\u2019s a big, big chain\u2026 Anywhere else, they have had to send their food waste in separate area. And we, at that time, did not have\u2026 It was all going to a landfill. 2014.<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<tr>\r\n<td width=\"319\"><\/td>\r\n<td width=\"319\">And so we made an arrangement with a agricultural site that was less than a mile away. That was 67 acres, severely depleted soil. And they had been purchasing compost from 25 miles away. So we arranged with the hauler, who was interested to see how this would work. And they transported, weekly, the material from that fast food restaurant up to the agricultural site where it was composted.<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<tr>\r\n<td width=\"319\"><\/td>\r\n<td width=\"319\">We ran the project for six months. The finished compost was five times more nutrient rich than what they had been importing in. It was such a win-win-win. The restaurant was saving $400 a month on the hauling fees. From my perspective as an environmentalist, it was no longer going to landfill. But, the local ordinances did not allow you to compost material that was generated offsite. We knew that. So we did it under the radar for six months. We brought any elected officials. And they were like, \u201cWow, it doesn\u2019t smell. None of the neighbors have been complaining.\u201d It was incredible. But, \u201cYou must stop, Restaurant. You must continue going back to sending the food waste to the landfill. And, Farm? You must only create compost from the material that you\u2019re generating onsite.\u201d Eight years later, this past September, they passed an ordinance to allow you to compost material that\u2019s been brought in from offsite. Throughout the county.<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<tr>\r\n<td width=\"319\"><\/td>\r\n<td width=\"319\">So that was an incredible success. We were actually recognized at the time, in 2015, with the state\u2019s highest environmental honor for putting a spotlight on the issue of food waste. But it still didn\u2019t do anything. I mean, it was eight years. And there were other people who were aware of the issue. But we demonstrated the importance of it, and the potential of it. I\u2019m really not answering your question, except to say that we recognize that all these solutions are necessary.<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<tr>\r\n<td width=\"319\"><\/td>\r\n<td width=\"319\">And in the San Diego area, we\u2019re very unique. We have year-round growing seasons. If you know anything about San Diego, it\u2019s pretty temperate year round. And we have the largest number of farms, the largest number of organic farms in any county in the United States. Which means that they\u2019re relatively small. And so in close proximity, you have commercial, residential, and agricultural sites. And that\u2019s why, in downtown, we had a 67 acre farm, right within a mile of a fast food restaurant. And so, these kinds of closed-loop systems, it\u2019s ideal for it.<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<tr>\r\n<td width=\"319\"><\/td>\r\n<td width=\"319\">And so, really, back to the big issue of how are we going to manage all of the organic waste and the food waste that we\u2019re generating? We have to be creative. And come up with these kind of solutions. We have to look for the regulations to be eased, so that these types of arrangements can happen.<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<tr>\r\n<td width=\"319\">Reggie:<\/td>\r\n<td width=\"319\">Jessica, I think the one last thing I wanted to ask you is, going back to story of Quatro Vientos and deep-rooted belief and passion, in finding better ways to take care of the land that we occupy\u2026<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<tr>\r\n<td width=\"319\"><\/td>\r\n<td width=\"319\">What do you tell a group of sort of community-minded, civic-minded, folks like them who hear this story about it taking eight years to make progress on something? How do you\u2026 I don\u2019t know. Keep them energized, keep them hopeful that this is, not only important but possible, and sustainable, and that there are financial solutions that are within reach? Is there any hope that you can provide them?<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<tr>\r\n<td width=\"319\">Jessica T.:<\/td>\r\n<td width=\"319\">Well, I think along those lines, the state legislation, just as an example, requires that each jurisdiction must spur the market for the finished goods. So the byproducts. So they must purchase a certain amount of a finished compost, and\/or the renewable natural gas, as part of the regulations. And so, what we\u2019re seeing is, that it really is encouraging the market. I think I started by saying that even with the commercial composters, they make their money off of taking the waste. More than they make it from the sale of the finished product. So there\u2019s not a market for the finished product. And there\u2019s no real appreciation or value in it. That\u2019s a problem.<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<tr>\r\n<td width=\"319\"><\/td>\r\n<td width=\"319\">But I do think that that is changing, and so, beyond the fact that it is such an incredible process to see and be part of\u2026 And I have staff who say that there\u2019s the soil releases endorphins that create a happy life\u2026 Besides that, I think that obviously what they\u2019re doing at Cuatro Vientes is really important to the community, and I hope it will be recognized. I do think that there\u2019s change that we\u2019re seeing happen. I am optimistic. But it does take time and real persistence.<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<tr>\r\n<td width=\"319\">Luke:<\/td>\r\n<td width=\"319\">Absolutely. Yeah, change really does take time, and that really is an inspirational story. After all, it did take eight years. But it finally came to fruition, so it\u2019s great to hear.<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<tr>\r\n<td width=\"319\"><\/td>\r\n<td width=\"319\">So Jessica, we\u2019re going to end this episode by asking you about a book that has impacted your work in environmental sustainability. Or just your life and your career\u2026<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<tr>\r\n<td width=\"319\">Jessica T.:<\/td>\r\n<td width=\"319\">That is such an open-ended question. Specific to composting, I have to say, I asked staff who are much more hands-on with the composting, and they said, really the best source for content on composting is to look at the US Composting Council\u2019s website. They said, in general, that the content is evolving enough that material is available on the website.<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<tr>\r\n<td width=\"319\">Reggie:<\/td>\r\n<td width=\"319\">Thank you so much, Jessica. This was really enlightening. Really helpful in helping us understand the challenges that the sector faces in making it possible to be someone\u2019s livelihood and business. So, this is incredibly helpful. Thank you so much.<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<tr>\r\n<td width=\"319\">Luke:<\/td>\r\n<td width=\"319\">Wow. Well, thank you so much, Jessica, for this thoughtful conversation. And for joining us on the show today. Thank you to all of our listeners for tuning in to this episode of Building Local Power. You can find links to everything discussed today by going to ilsr.org and clicking on the show page for this episode. That is I L S R dot org.<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<tr>\r\n<td width=\"319\">Reggie:<\/td>\r\n<td width=\"319\">If you like this podcast, remember, please share with your family, your friends, the random people that follow you on social media because you\u2019re such a great follow. And remember, all of your reviews and likes on your streaming platform helps this podcast reach more people. And your donations help to keep this podcast going, and supports the research and resources that we make available on our website for free. We welcome and appreciate it all so much. This show is produced by Luke Gannon and me, Reggie Rucker. This podcast is edited by Drew Birschbach and Luke Gannon. Our theme music for the season is composed by Andrew Frank. Thank you for listening to Building Local Power.<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<\/tbody>\r\n<\/table>\r\n<\/div>\r\n<\/div>\r\n<\/div>\r\n<\/div>\r\n<img class=\"size-full wp-image-70892 alignright\" src=\"https:\/\/ilsr.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/05\/BuildingLocalPower_Logo2018-1.png\" sizes=\"(max-width: 288px) 100vw, 288px\" srcset=\"https:\/\/ilsr.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/05\/BuildingLocalPower_Logo2018-1.png 288w, https:\/\/ilsr.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/05\/BuildingLocalPower_Logo2018-1-150x150.png 150w, https:\/\/ilsr.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/05\/BuildingLocalPower_Logo2018-1-250x250.png 250w\" alt=\"\" width=\"288\" height=\"289\" \/>\r\n\r\nLike this episode? 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