{"id":16906,"date":"2019-01-25T12:20:38","date_gmt":"2019-01-25T17:20:38","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/ilsr.org\/articles\/webinar-resources-composting-with-worms-on-a-mid-to-large-scale-what-why-how-and-who\/"},"modified":"2025-11-07T14:09:09","modified_gmt":"2025-11-07T19:09:09","slug":"webinar-vermicomposting-january-2019","status":"publish","type":"article","link":"https:\/\/ilsr.org\/es\/article\/composting-for-community\/webinar-vermicomposting-january-2019","title":{"rendered":"Recursos del seminario web: Compostaje con lombrices a mediana y gran escala: qu\u00e9, por qu\u00e9, c\u00f3mo y qui\u00e9n."},"template":"","class_list":["post-16906","article","type-article","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","article_type-presentations-events","initiatives-composting-for-community","authors-virginia-streeter"],"acf":{"details":{"featured_image":3847,"background_color":"tan","article_type":[29],"initiative":15,"display_event_fields":false,"start_date":null,"end_date":null,"start_time":null,"end_time":null,"time_zone":"America\/New_York","virtual_event":false,"location":"","topics":false,"impact_areas":false,"abstract":"<p>Internationally renowned vermicomposting expert, Rhonda Sherman, shares highlights from her new book.&hellip; <a class=\"kt-excerpt-readmore\" href=\"https:\/\/ilsr.org\/webinar-vermicomposting-january-2019\/\" aria-label=\"Webinar Resources: Composting with Worms on a Mid to Large-Scale \u2014 What, Why, How, and Who\">Read More<\/a><\/p>\r\n","authors_tax":[614]},"sidebar":{"title":"\u00cdndice"},"page_layout":[{"acf_fc_layout":"layout_wysiwyg","_acfe_flexible_toggle":"","component_wysiwyg":{"content":"\u00a1Gracias a todos los que se registraron y asistieron a nuestro seminario web! Puede ver la grabaci\u00f3n a continuaci\u00f3n.\r\n\r\n<iframe src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/yL8oQm8v3eE\" width=\"560\" height=\"315\" frameborder=\"0\" allowfullscreen=\"allowfullscreen\"><\/iframe>\r\n\r\n<b>Vermicompostaje<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> (compostaje con lombrices) es una de las mejores opciones sostenibles para reciclar materiales org\u00e1nicos, como restos de comida, y convertirlos en un valioso acondicionador del suelo., <\/span><b>humus de lombriz<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> (compost de lombrices). <\/span>\r\n\r\n<span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">En este seminario web, el experto en vermicompostaje de renombre internacional, <\/span><b>Rhonda Sherman<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">, comparti\u00f3 los aspectos m\u00e1s destacados de su nuevo libro, <\/span><b><i>Manual del criador de lombrices: vermicompostaje a mediana y gran escala para granjas, empresas, municipios, escuelas e instituciones.<\/i><\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">. Esta completa gu\u00eda explica c\u00f3mo hacer vermicompostaje con \u00e9xito e incluye todo lo que necesitas saber, desde la planificaci\u00f3n del negocio, la selecci\u00f3n del sistema, la gesti\u00f3n y la resoluci\u00f3n de problemas, la recolecci\u00f3n de humus de lombriz, consejos para la replicaci\u00f3n y lecciones aprendidas de empresas modelo de todo el mundo. Dada la importancia de los suelos sanos para una alimentaci\u00f3n saludable y la captura de carbono, este manual no podr\u00eda ser m\u00e1s oportuno. <\/span>\r\n\r\n<span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Tanto si quieres empezar a hacer vermicompostaje como si eres un funcionario p\u00fablico interesado en apoyar el compostaje local, \u00a1este seminario web es para ti!<\/span>","":null,"settings":""}},{"acf_fc_layout":"layout_accordion","_acfe_flexible_toggle":"","component_accordion":{"title":"","items":[{"title":"Transcript","text":"<em>Brenda Platt (facilitator):<\/em>\r\n\r\nThank you for joining today\u2019s webinar, Composting with Worms on a Mid to Large Scale \u2014 What, Why, How, and Who? I\u2019m Brenda Platt, the director of the Institute for Local Self Reliance is composting for community initiative. This webinar is one in a series that we offer to advance composting and share working models and tips for replication. We are particularly interested in supporting a distributed, distributed, and diverse infrastructure for composting and food waste reduction and recovery. Our last webinar featured bike powered food scrap collection with a spotlight on equipment, so check that out. Today. We will be talking about Vermont composting or composting with worms and I can think of no better person than Rhonda Sherman with North Carolina State University to address how to compost with worms on a mid to large scale. Her latest book is shown here, the were farmers handbook, which is a guide to mid and large scale vermicomposting for farms, businesses, municipalities, schools, and institutions.\r\n\r\nGiven the importance of healthy soils to healthy food and healthy communities, and particularly now increasingly recognized carbon sequestration. Her handbook couldn\u2019t be more timely. So today Rhonda is going to cover the many, many benefits of vermin, compost, some basics who can compost from schools and farms to municipalities and businesses, how to plan for success and what pitfalls to avoid. And then she\u2019s going to end with a showing us a some vermicomposting operations around the world and a wide range of setups, setups and systems. She\u2019s going to talk for about 50 or so minutes and we\u2019re going to try to leave 30 minutes for q and a. So I hope you can all stay on to get all your questions answered. Um, before I introduced Rhonda even more fully, let me just say a few words about the institute for Local Self Reliance. We\u2019re a national organization and we support local economies, which means we don\u2019t accept national advertising.\r\n\r\nSo please consider making a donation to ILSR are at ilsr.org\/donate. Not only does your support underwrite this Webinar, but it also helps us produce the resources and research we make available for free on our website. Any amount is welcome and sincerely appreciate it. That\u2019s Ilsr.org\/donate. I\u2019m now, let me just say a few words on a more on Rhonda. She\u2019s an extension specialist with the Department of Horticultural Science at North Carolina State University, as I already indicated, that\u2019s in Raleigh, North Carolina. She\u2019s a leading authority on vermicomposting and organize the world\u2019s, organizes the world\u2019s only annual conference on large scale commercial vermicomposting. She had our 19th conference last November. She\u2019s also the founder and director of a two acre compost learning lab as part of NC State University. And that feature is 26 different types of composting and vermicomposting bands as well as areas for hands on training activities. She\u2019s taught composting and vermicomposting and Diana, the Dominican Republic, Argentina, Chile, and throughout the US.\r\n\r\nAnd she has offered over 65 publications on Vermont composting, composting, recycling, and waste reduction. Um, so we are really pleased to have her today as we\u2019re. Before we hand the reins over to Rhonda, we\u2019re going to do a three polling questions just to get a sense of who\u2019s on the line today. So, uh, my colleague, Virginia. Thank you. Virginia is helping with tech today. Will bring up the, uh, first polling question. So select one or more of the following. Do you represent government, nonprofit, private business, or your community scale? Composter Holler do fall into another category. We usually like to wait till we have about 80 percent of the votes in still votes coming in. All right, let\u2019s see the results. Oh, most you have third and the other category. But one fifth government, one fifth private business. Okay. Next poll is, um, question. Where are you? Are you in the east coast, us, west coast, southwest, Midwest, or are you outside the US? Okay, let\u2019s show the results. Looks like the east coast is winning southwest outside us. Have some international participants. Great. And then the, uh, two more questions. Are you give us an idea of your currently vermicomposting interested in starting to Vermont compost. Do you want to support vermicomposting? Like you\u2019re not actually going to do it, but you\u2019re at your local government. You want to see more of this decentralized diverse composting. So you might want to fund it or support it in some other way or you fall into another category.\r\n\r\nOh, alright. Let\u2019s show the results. Well, I\u2019m surprised by this one, almost two thirds of you are already doing it, but a quarter interest in starting. Okay. Rhonda, you have some seasoned [inaudible] composters on the line. All right, last question for those vermicomposting or interested in starting. So only those two categories. What best represents your location? Uh, you affirm or you another business? School, municipality, other. Okay. I suppose they\u2019re still coming in. Alright. Let\u2019s see. The results. There\u2019s a big mix here. Most are in the other category. Alright. Two fits other, other, but we have one fifth farmer\u2019s, 10 percent schools, 15 percent cities. Okay. Interesting. Alright, we will before we do q and a, we\u2019ll have a few more polling questions at the end, but without further ado, we\u2019re going to hand it over to Rhonda to start. So let\u2019s just let her control the screen and advance your own slides. Bear with us as we do this. Hey Rhonda, say a few things. Are you muted?\u00a0Sounds good, but I guess she can hear me. Yes, you sound great and you can see the screen. Alright, let\u2019s get started.\r\n\r\n<em>Rhonda Sherman (presenter):<\/em>\r\n\r\nI\u2019m very pleased that so many of you have joined us today from all over the United States and other parts of the world. Um, so this is mid to large scale from a composting as we said, and that means I won\u2019t be covering how, um, you know, a beginning for composting, although I do have a slide with a link to one of my publications about that. So take note of my web address there. If you go to that web address, you will find lots of information I\u2019ve written about small scale and large scale vermicomposting and small scale and large scale composting. Okay. So you\u2019ll find lots of information there. So, um, we\u2019re here because I wrote the worm farmers handbook. I was thinking we should have done a poll how many people have already read it, but anyway, um, so in writing this I, you know, there just really wasn\u2019t anything out there.\r\n\r\nThere are some books on small scale from a composting but not on mid to large scale. And so this is for people who, you know, like you have a farm and you have livestock manure or crop residues and you would like to turn them into a beneficial soil amendment so you can do that through Burma composting or say you\u2019re at a restaurant or a grocery store or I\u2019m a school, as you know, many schools are doing vermicomposting, they\u2019ll, they\u2019ll have like a small worm bin in their classroom. But, um, this book addresses how you can do a school wide firma composting and, um, and then many institutions, they\u2019re doing it. I do have a slide about all this later, but my book is filled with photographs of operations all over the world actually. So I profiled at least 25 different Vermont composting operations, um, including at schools and farms.\r\n\r\nSo you\u2019ll be able to see all that. Um, so these are the, some of the topics that I cover in the worm farmers handbook that will help you choose what kind of production system works for you. You know, we\u2019re, we\u2019re all in different situations and we have different climates and climate is definitely very important. So, um, later on I will be showing you pictures of different types of vermicomposting systems. A regulatory issues is very important because, um, so anybody who\u2019s wanting to do this on a larger scale, so if you want to do it at a community garden or you want to start a Vermont composting business or do it on site at a hospital or a restaurant or wherever, you really do need to check into, um, state and local regulations to see if it\u2019s okay to do that. And if you do plan to have a business and sell the Burma compost, then I have a whole section that goes into detail about developing business and marketing plans.\r\n\r\nUm, I also talked about finding and managing feedstocks. That\u2019s what you\u2019re going to feed the worms and then pre composting, why you would want to do it and how to do it. And then, um, once you get your worm bag going, how to monitor it to make sure that everything\u2019s going well and the worms are healthy. Um, and then how to harvest screen, test package and store from a compost. And you\u2019ll see that. I actually said, vern, my cast, I decided to use the term Burma cast throughout the book because I\u2019m someplace, some businesses will call it castings and others, we\u2019ll call it Vermont compost. And so I kind of combined it to call it Burma cast and then I talked about markets for earthworms and MCAST, um, how it benefits soils and plants and how to avoid common pitfalls to have a successful operation.\r\n\r\nAnd then again, like I said in the last chapter, I really go into detail about different vermicomposting around operations all over the world, so Vermont composting, to put it simply, the microorganisms and earthworms are working together to process food scraps, but some kind of feedstock. So I just have to show a picture of food scraps, but you know, it could be cow manure or something else. Um, and then they process it and turn it into a beneficial soil amendment. So we\u2019ll be talking more about that. Um, first of all, there\u2019s people often interchange the terms Vermont compost and compost. So I receive emails from all over the world and it gets confusing for me because, you know, they may have vermacompost in their subject line and then in the email they might keep saying compost and, you know, so I\u2019m scratching my head going, which are you talking about?\r\n\r\nVermont compost and compost are very different processes, so be very careful with the language so that people understand what you\u2019re talking about. Um, so I listed some of the differences here. Vermont compost is, it\u2019s passed through worms, so worms have consumed it and stable Vermont compost has come out the other end. And so whereas with composting we call it thermophilic composting and it\u2019s just you, the microorganisms, the activity of micro organisms are breaking down in consuming the organic feed stocks and converting it to compost. So you see the difference that, you know, there are um, micro organisms involved with Vermont composting too, but then the feedstock actually passes through the worms and comes out the other end. So big difference there. And we often refer to Vermont. Composting is cold composting because as many of you might know with composting a, you want it to reach, you want your compost pile to reach a certain temperature, you want it to be like above 131.\r\n\r\nI\u2019m right around 140 or a maximum of 1:50, you know, so you want your compost pile to heat up. But the Vermont compost, do you want it to stay at a pretty stable temperature? And we\u2019ll talk about that temperature zone in a few minutes, but um, because it stays at this, you know, at a certain temperature, you get a wider variety and greater numbers of microorganisms. So it is a different microbe population involved in the two processes. And then if you\u2019re going to sell compost, it will sell for about up to $35 per cubic yard. Whereas Vermont compost will sell for $200 to $1,800 per cubic yard. Very valuable commodity. So these are some of the many benefits of Vermont compost. You\u2019ll notice that some of them are similar to compost. But, um, again, Vermont compost is a different process and it does have a different qualities from compost, so very fine particulate structure high, I wonder why that is.\r\n\r\nIt\u2019s passed through worms, so very tiny worms have consumed that feed stocks, they\u2019re coming out the other end, they\u2019re fully stabilized. You could just use them right away. Um, so, so you could, as long as you know that it\u2019s actual worm castings and not the feedstocks, I\u2019m the Ph is going to be near neutral. It has a high water holding capacity, teaming with microorganisms like I already mentioned. And then it, it contains nutrients that are in a form, they can readily be taken up by plants. And then, um, the real crowning achievement of Vermont compost is that it has humic acids in plant growth hormones that have a really profound effect. So here\u2019s just a quick list of the effects that Vermont compost has on plant growth and disease and pest suppression. So you\u2019ll find by adding compost to soil, you\u2019ll get increased rates of germination growth, flowering and crop yields.\r\n\r\nSo the seeds will germinate more quickly, the plants will, will, um, emerge and grow bigger and stronger and whatever that, um, that flower purdue, that plant produces, whether it be flowers or fruit or vegetables, you\u2019ll have more of them. Um, the root development is, is much greater if you\u2019ve added from a compost and it tolerate stress a lot better. So there\u2019s decreased shock from transplanting plants. Um, there\u2019s reported plant vitality and flip, a flavor profile is enhanced and also there are many, many studies, many scientific studies that show decreased attacks by plant pathogens, parasitic nematodes in insect pass. And so while I was writing the book, I to Google scholar and I just typed in Vermont, compost have effects on plants and within seconds, almost 30,000 scientific article references came up and it was just, you know, just those three words. So imagine if you played around for awhile and, um, you know, use different terminology there.\r\n\r\nThere are just thousands and thousands of scientific articles from all over the world where scientists are studying the effects of Vermont. Compost unplanned. So check that out. Um, so speaking of, let\u2019s look at this, so this was several years ago that myself and a couple of colleagues over about a year and a half, we planted turnips in the field, actually three different fields, three different seasons, and we\u2019re actually, it was a water quality study, so we weren\u2019t, we weren\u2019t looking at the effect of vermin, compost, unplanned growth, but we couldn\u2019t help notice some differences. So we finally took a quick picture and the, and, and so with this trial we had randomized plots, all of the plots had equal amounts of nitrogen. Okay. So we know nitrogen has a really big impact on plant growth is very much needed for plants. So we made sure that every plant grown had the same amount of nitrogen and you may be scratching your head looking at this picture going, oh, surely that the two other turnips had more nitrogen, but they did not.\r\n\r\nThey have the exact same amount of nitrogen as the one on the left. So what\u2019s the big difference? It\u2019s those plant growth hormones and humic acids and the microorganisms in the Vermont compost. So, so in our randomized plots we had, we, um, some of the plots had zero Vermont compost and some of the plots, we actually removed all of the soil from the plot six inches deep and we, out of all that soil we took out of the plot, we removed 10 percent of it by volume and we added 10 percent Vermont compost and mixed it thoroughly and put it back in the plot. And then for the other plots, we did 20 percent by volume from a compost. And so these are the results. So the turn up you\u2019re seeing on the left had zero Vermont compost. It\u2019s a regular size turnip. Take look at that root little spin, one spindly route there.\r\n\r\nAnd then the, the one next to it, the turn up in the middle, it had 10 percent by volume from or compost added to the soil. And so look at that root system, compare to the other one and look at the Greens. If you\u2019re in the turnip green business, you have just hit the Jackpot and then next to it is 20 percent by volume from a compost look that just giant turn up. So, um, and you may be wondering, well, you know, my goodness, if you had added a 100 percent Vermont compost, would it just be this gigantic vegetable? But the thing is that Vermont compost a little bit goes a really long way and by adding more, um, can they actually, at least it can be too much for the plant and you can end up looking like the, um, turn up on the left so you could add up to 40 percent by volume, Vermont compost if you wanted to, but once you get 50 or higher percentage than um, you know, you\u2019re just wasting the Vermont compost to actually in really.\r\n\r\nI mean, look at these two. Look at the 10 percent and 20 percent. That\u2019s really all you need. So, so whereas vermicomposting taking place. So I mentioned some of these and they were definitely on the cover of my book, but I\u2019m so farms and households, prisons are doing vermicomposting hospitals, community gardens, restaurants, parks, wastewater treatment plants, universities and colleges, office buildings, schools and daycare. And I\u2019m just so excited that nowadays it seems like so many schools have their own gardens and having a compost bin and a worm bin is just a great addition to that. Um, military bases are doing vermicomposting entrepreneurs are, you know, for any of you who perked up when you saw the $200 to $1,800 for Vermont compost, um, you might be seeing dollar signs and more and more people are, um, I mean, it\u2019s not only the motivation for the money, but wanting to take waste products and turn them into something beneficial that can have such a profound effect on soil and plants.\r\n\r\nThat\u2019s why so many entrepreneurs are getting into this. Um, food banks, Vermont, compost, some paper mills. Um, I added sports stadium there because I visited the Seattle King Dome back in Nineteen Ninety five and they had worm bins, um, because they were serving salads during their games there. And so that\u2019s been done. And then grocery stores too. So, um, so if I saw, we saw that almost two thirds of you are vermicomposting already and you might end, so um, you may want to improve the technique of the small wormed in because for, for many people they do start a worm bin and then they don\u2019t quite understand how to do it correctly. And then the worms die. And so you can see that link at the bottom of this that shows the, the link to my publication called worms can recycle your garbage. It\u2019s only like four and a half pages long.\r\n\r\nI keep it short and concise. So it tells you how to set up a worm bin and be successful about it. And I recommend for anybody who, if you have not Burma composted, and you\u2019re thinking about doing a really a much larger scale Verma composting project, do not just go out and buy 10 pounds of worms or more because that may end up being wasted money because you really need to learn how to take care of worms before you endeavor to do a larger operation. So you want to just start small with one pound of worms and be successful with them and then start scaling up. Okay? And so you want to use the correct earthworm species, which, um, I emphasize this throughout the book I sent you, is basically the best vermicomposting worm that even people in other countries throughout the world, so many of them use, I Sandia Fetida.\r\n\r\nIt just adapts much more easily to vermicomposting and you\u2019ll be very successful with them. They\u2019re less temperamental and tolerate a wider range of environmental conditions than many other earthworms. So make sure you get the right earthworm species and you want to buy it from a worm grower. And so to buy it from a worm grower, um, you could ask your local cooperative extension office if they know somebody who\u2019s selling worms. Sometimes people who are raising rabbits will also, they\u2019ll use earthworms to process the rabbit manure. And so they might have worms to sell. Um, there are worm farmers all over the place, but um, you know, just because like if you google I\u2019m worms, don\u2019t go for the first one that comes up. Okay. I mean, I\u2019m just saying that look around because the prices vary. And so you want to get a good price and you want a good reputation from.\r\n\r\nSo check that out too because you don\u2019t always, you know, sometimes, um, it depends on the grower. You might not get the best worms to be successful. So I sent a Fetida it has many common names. I\u2019m the one that\u2019s most used is probably red wigler. But anyway, that\u2019s what you\u2019re looking for. I sending us data. So what they need is they operate best at a temperature between 60 and 80 degrees. Okay. So, um, that doesn\u2019t mean, I mean many of us are sitting here shivering throughout the country and so that does not necessarily mean that you can\u2019t do it if it\u2019s below 60 degrees. Um, my poor worms are in my worm barn today at the compost learning lab and um, he got down to like 17 degrees last night, so I\u2019m sure they weren\u2019t happy about that. But I think with the right earthworm husbandry skills, you can keep them alive.\r\n\r\nAnd so I talk about that in the book, how to deal with temperature swings. But if you\u2019re getting, get into this commercially and you\u2019re depending on this, a steady income from vermicomposting, then you\u2019re going to want to keep it in that range. Okay? But lots of people do it outdoors and you know, they, you can, um, keep the worms comfortable outside of that range, but the worms do need moisture. They breathe through their skin and so they need 80 percent moisture in the zone of the worm bin where they live and they tend to live in the top four inches of the worm bin. So in that area, you\u2019re going to want your bin to be about 80 percent moisture and we\u2019ll talk more about that.\r\n\r\nSorry to interrupt, but you were breaking up a little bit for me. I don\u2019t know for others. Can you just repeat your last sentence? Sure. Okay, sorry about that. Okay. So moisture, um, needs to be 80 percent in the top four inches of the worm bin. So they need air to breathe through their skin. So moisture is very important. Next we\u2019ll talk about Ph and the you\u2019re aiming for about neutral ph in the worm. Then I sent a, a Fetida will tolerate a wider range of Ph, but they do best if it\u2019s around neutral. And of course, since they are living beings, they do need oxygen, but don\u2019t, you don\u2019t have to be so concerned about oxygen that you\u2019re getting a lot of, um, evaporation and losing your moisture. So I really go into that in the blog as well. And then keep in mind that the, um, the ice nef Pheta is sensitive to ammonia and salts and so, um, ammonia, that would be chicken manure.\r\n\r\nSo do not try to feed straight chicken manure to worms because it\u2019s just too high in ammonia. And then, um, for salts, if you had super salty institutional food or something, that could be an issue with the worm. So you just keep that in mind as well. So what will the worms eat? \u2018Em they love livestock manure. So, you know, we\u2019re talking from cows and pigs and goats, sheep llamas, alpacas rabbits, and all sorts of manures, um, food residuals, spoiled drain yard debris, cardboard, scrap paper, agricultural crop residues, coffee grounds, brewery waste. Um, depending on, okay, you really, I always add, um, as far as brewery waste goes, if that\u2019s high in ammonia, um, that can be a problem. So you really want to test anything. You\u2019re going to feed to the worms and it\u2019s very easy to do. You just have a small container.\r\n\r\nYou put that type of food into the container, you add a handful of worms and see how they respond to it because they will either start eating it or they will leave. Or if you know it was really high pneumonia, they might immediately die. But it\u2019s really important to test these things out and then you have to keep in mind that whatever the worm eats affects what comes up the other end for the Vermont compost. Okay. And so all of these things you see on the page are going to have, you know, the worms will eat all of these things, but then there, um, you know, worms that are consuming cardboard are going to have different Vermont compost from those that are eating manure. And so, um, and then food waste. And so it\u2019s just something to keep in mind because it will affect the quality of the castings.\r\n\r\nOkay. So I just wanted to talk about these things too. Um, they, they each have a go into detail in the book, but particle size, very important because you only know, you have microorganisms that are so tiny. We can\u2019t see them with our, um, with just looking for them. We have to look through a microscope and then you have these tiny worms. And so the smaller the particle size, the faster it will be broken down and consumed by these small creatures. So that\u2019s something to keep in mind. I added a homogeneity because anybody who\u2019s had a small worm then has noticed that worms are what we would call picky eaters. So, so for example, if you have watermelon, melons tend to be kind of a premier preferred food, so they would be lying for, for melons and avoid the onions, you know, but if you pre compost it, then it\u2019s, then you have a homogeneous feedstock to feed to the worms.\r\n\r\nOkay? Because you\u2019re feeding them compost. So instead of raw onions and raw melon, you have your, they don\u2019t have those choices. It\u2019s all blended together. And compost. I\u2019m persistent herbicides. I\u2019m going to show you a couple of slides about that because it\u2019s a very important consideration to make. Um, the other thing is that the food could heat up. And remember we said that we want the, the wormed in to remain at a fairly low temperature. So say you\u2019ve got the right conditions, you\u2019re like, hey, right in the middle here, I\u2019ve got my worm bin in a 70 degree environment and now I\u2019m going to pile on some raw, whatever. I\u2019m very thick. And the thing is, it can heat up, so you really want to have very, um, uh, so you want to make sure that the food is either pre composted or in very thin layer by layer, so it will not heat up.\r\n\r\nYou also want to think about pathogens and I believe I have a slide on that. And then I also discuss pre composting on a slide that we\u2019re coming to. Okay. So I\u2019m going to move on to persistent herbicides. Okay. This is what any composter or Vermont compost or should know about because there are a certain class of herbicides that don\u2019t break down like other herbicides. Okay? They need sunlight and mostly sunlight will help activate them to help them break down. And so they can remain active in Hay and grass clippings and piles of manure and piles of compost or Vermont compost for years. Okay? And so this is very alarming. And so we have to make sure that this doesn\u2019t happen. You know, the, the, it doesn\u2019t make it into our compost or Vermont compost. So, um, the effect is that it can cause poor seed germination, death of young plants, twisted copter, elongated leaves, misshapen fruit and reduced to yields for some people, no plants will grow.\r\n\r\nUm, for some people, they\u2019re wherever they have used compost that is contaminated with these types of herbicides that are persistent. It can be years that before you could use that soil again, that plot of land. So it\u2019s, it\u2019s very alarming, you know, so you just want to make sure and keeping in mind that, um, okay, so we listed, I\u2019m like, hey. So for example, if you\u2019re getting horse manure or common or they could, those animals could have consumed, hey, that was sprayed with one of these persistent herbicides. And so it\u2019s on the hay, it goes inside the animal where there\u2019s no sunlight inside the animal, right? So it comes out the other end and gets put into a pile of manure. Well, the pile, the outer edges will be exposed to sunlight, but most of the pile will not have sunlight. So it\u2019s not. The herbicide site is not breaking down there.\r\n\r\nAnd then the, the manure and may be used to create compost and you can see it\u2019s so raw hay, grass clippings, manure, all of these things could go into a compost pile and if they have, um, they do have residues of persistent herbicides, then you can end up with, you know, you think the compost or vermin compost is just fine, but it could be active with that. So I\u2019m just giving you that alert and encouraging you to read this publication that I\u2019ve highlighted in green. So this is the title of a publication that was written by a couple of colleagues of mine. And so here\u2019s the link to the publication. And then the US composting council also has information about persistent herbicides. And so there\u2019s the US ccs link as well. Okay. So I\u2019m pretty composting. So what we mean by that is that you go through the thermophilic composting process, but you.\r\n\r\nAnd so the temperatures go up and then once the temperatures have stayed at that high temperature for, for a while and the, and the feedstock is getting consumed than the temperature starts to drop. And at that point we would call that pre compost and we would remove it and begin feeding the worms. So the difference between pre composting and composting is that with composting it\u2019s really important to give time for the pile to cool down. We\u2019re talking months for the pool, for the pile to cool down and mature. And so with the pre composting, the compost is still active with, um, with plenty of nutrients and food for the earthworms. So, um, so a lot of people do pre composting and certainly in the book I encouraged it and talked about it quite a bit. Um, these are some of the advantages of pre composting.\r\n\r\nIt\u2019s going to reduce the volume. So whatever feedstocks you have, you can reduce the volume by, you know, half or up to a third of what you started out with, which is really important because if you have really huge volumes and you\u2019re just feeding thin layers to the worms, then it\u2019s an advantage to have less volume that it\u2019s gone through pre composting. The next is destroying pathogens. And if you\u2019ll remember, that was on my list of considerations. So this is rico required by the federal government and any states that have composting laws that, um, and, and this is really important to kill pathogens. Okay. So, um, that means reaching a temperature of at least a hundred and 31 degrees Fahrenheit or 55 Celsius. And, um, the requirements are for a, depending on if you\u2019re doing static aerated piles, which on the, the photo on the left shows doing that, um, and then, or if you\u2019re doing windrows, so it\u2019s, it\u2019s a time temperature requirement, but the important thing of destroying pathogens, you may think, oh, you know, I\u2019m only using food waste there.\r\n\r\nThere aren\u2019t any pathogens in food ways. Well, think again, think about how we, um, we find out that coli or salmonella or some other pathogen has been detected in spinach, strawberries, all sorts of things. Romaine lettuce, all sorts of things make the headlines. So those foods happen contaminated with pathogens. If you\u2019re using, um, you know, anything that sat in a pile outside, you could have bird bird waste, you know, bird droppings, um, if you\u2019re feeding, say grass, it could have dog poop on it. You know, so these are all pathogens and it\u2019s important to kill them by reaching high temperatures and also seeds, think about if you\u2019re collecting the food waste and so you\u2019ve got seeds from melons and tomatoes and all sorts of things and then I\u2019m think about weed seeds that have blown up and gotten into, you know, maneuvers and other crop residuals.\r\n\r\nSo by reaching 140 degrees Fahrenheit or 60 degrees Celsius, it can kill off the seeds and then it can also reduce the heat in the feedstock. So anybody who\u2019s been around a, a steaming pile of manure, for example, if you pre compost it, then you\u2019ve taken the heat out of it and so it\u2019s less likely to heat up your worm bed. So different types of composting systems, pits, trenches, beds, bins, trays, wind rows, wedges and continuous flow. The worm bins, these are all different options you can take. And so there is no right or wrong. It depends on your situation, what you can afford, what works best for what you have. Okay? So, and some people start with one system and then they might build their, their operation larger and, and go with a different type of system. So I\u2019m going to show you pictures of from a lot of choices you can make.\r\n\r\nAnd so, um, some people do it outdoors and then some people do it indoors, either in a permanent building or a quonset hut or some kind of polyethylene structure or pole barn. That\u2019s what I have my worm, my worms are in a pole barn that unfortunately have some open a sides. So that\u2019s why the temperature can be controlled, but you can do it on soil or asphalt or concrete depending on your situation and what works best for you. So the space needed, keep in mind you\u2019ll need some place to put feedstock that you\u2019re going to feed the worms. And then I\u2019m wormed ins should be, um, no wider than eight feet. Okay? Um, and, and that\u2019s because you need to be able to check on your livestock, your livestock or worms and you need to eyeball each other. Not well each part of your bins so you can make sure or bed to make sure that I\u2019m the earthworms are thriving. And so if it\u2019s over eight feet wide, it\u2019s going to be very difficult for you to be able to see what\u2019s going on in the middle of your worm bed. Um, you may need an area to chopper grind the food, and then if you are going to do pre composting, then you would need an area for that as well.\r\n\r\nSo these are the basics for Vermont composting. Okay, this is the money slide. So you want to start with six inches of bedding. My next slide gives you options for bedding, but so start off with six inches, um, or you know, 15 point two, four centimeters. All right? And then you\u2019re going in and the spending needs to be moist. Remember I said 80 percent moisture? So whatever kind of bedding you\u2019re going to use, it needs to soak in water for a certain amount of time. And before you add the worms. So you want it to be moist but not sopping wet. So then you\u2019re gonna. Add your ice Sannia fender, the earthworms at a rate of one pound or two pounds of you want to do I, but you know, starting out with one pound is probably the best way per square foot of surface area.\r\n\r\nOkay? So we\u2019re not talking about cubic feet here. We\u2019re talking square feet of surface area and that\u2019s because the worms come to the top to eat. And so that\u2019s all we\u2019re dealing with there. Okay? So then when you apply feedstock, you only put about an inch thick. Okay? Make sure it\u2019s less than two inches thick, but, and again, because if it\u2019s too thick, then it\u2019s um, it has the possibility of heating up and harming the worms are killing them. So only about an inch of feedstock. And then wait until the feedstock is eaten before adding more. So. And you may say, well wait a minute, I read that so-and-so worm farm feeds so many pounds per day of feedstock. And the thing is they don\u2019t. Okay, they, they\u2019re either taking a weekly or a monthly rate and dividing it, people do not feed the worms and daily because the worms are not machines. And they\u2019re not going to listen to you, even if you try to say, Hey, I want you to eat all of this in 24 hours, they\u2019re going to eat as much as they, they want for the circumstances that they\u2019re in too.\r\n\r\nAnd just like yesterday, you might have really picked out and today you\u2019re not so hungry while they are living beings too. And so they\u2019re not robots, they\u2019re not going to consume a certain amount every day. So you wait until the feedstock is gone. Before you add more, if you just say add more feedstock on top of what\u2019s already there, then the feedstock that they haven\u2019t eaten, we\u2019ll probably go anaerobic and it\u2019ll mess up your whole system. So wait until it\u2019s gone. So if you do decide to feed your worms raw food scraps, then you should cover those food scraps. Okay? So that you\u2019re not attracting different types of flies. So, um, cover them either with shredded paper or cardboard or put cloth or plastic or tarp over the bed just to try to keep out flies. Alright? So betting choices, um, so you\u2019ve got it stable.\r\n\r\nCompost. That\u2019s what I usually use. Okay, so it\u2019s compost that has gone through the heating cycle and it has cured so it\u2019s stable. And so that\u2019s what I usually use. So I\u2019ll take \u2019em compost and, and, uh, apply six inches deep and make sure it\u2019s moist. Some people have, a lot of people use aged horse manure. Again, you want to make sure it\u2019s greatly aged so you know, at least a few months so that it\u2019s not going to heat up. It\u2019s very important that bedding does not heat up. Betting is the safe zone for the worms. So it gives them an organic environment to live in. And so if, if things are not suitable for them, say if you apply too much food or the food is not appropriate for them or the food is too hot, they can retreat into the bedding and survive.\r\n\r\nSo the bedding is very important. So some people use aged leaf mold or shredded brown, you know, dead leaves. Some people use shredded paper though, you know, shredded paper is fine for a small worm bins, but if you\u2019re going to do a larger system than um, you know, paper gets mushy so I wouldn\u2019t recommend it for a large system. And then some people use coconut core and you know, again, if it\u2019s got a big footprint, carbon footprint, so I wouldn\u2019t recommend using it. That\u2019s not what I use. And since we mentioned, um, since we were meant since I was talking about small and large scale, if you want to do a medium to large scale Vermont composting operation, then do that. Don\u2019t, don\u2019t do a bunch of small scale things, don\u2019t take a bunch of buckets or some small been and just, you know, say, Oh, I\u2019m going to have 50 of these because that\u2019s more work for you.\r\n\r\nIt\u2019s harder to manage the moisture. It\u2019s just a different environment. And so you\u2019ll notice that when you, you\u2019ll notice the difference between managing a small bin and a larger been in, in the larger been, it can be much more forgiving for the environmental situation. Okay. So watering the worm beds, again, 80 percent moisture, right? So when you\u2019re putting your bedding in there, it is 80 percent moisture, but then, um, you will get some evaporation so you need to keep an eye on it. And so if it looks and feels on the dry side, then you want to use light applications of water and do that frequently in. When I say frequent, what I mean is avoid heavy, infrequent watering. So don\u2019t let the bad go for a whole week and then go, oh my gosh, it\u2019s so dry and then you flooded. Had, is not the way to go.\r\n\r\nSo depending on your environment, your climate, your humidity level in the area where you live, um, will determine how often you need to add water to your worm bed. Okay. My, what I, the setup that I have, um, we rarely had any moisture to it. Um, other people, they might be applying moisture three times a day, but in the photo you can see misting. And so that\u2019s what you would want to do is have some kind of misting system and you never ever pour water into the worm bed, even if you\u2019ve seen it on youtube. Okay? That is not the way to go. So, okay, so healthy worm bin traits as that, um, the worm bed will smell earthy like the forest. So within, even if you use hog manure, which is Super Stinky within 24 to 48 hours, there are so many micro organisms, there\u2019s so much microbial activity taking place in the bin that the, those stinky odors will dissipate.\r\n\r\nAnd so, you know, I give classes in my, um, in barn and people are right next to these big macro bins that are filled with that have cow manure in them. And uh, people don\u2019t realize there are worms and cow manure right next to them because it doesn\u2019t smell. Um, you should not see earthworms if they\u2019re busy eating way, they should be, you know, maybe you\u2019ll see them on top consuming some of the feed stocks, but you shouldn\u2019t see them on the sides or lid of the bin. Because that could mean there\u2019s a problem and I do have a troubleshooting guide in my, um, worms can recycle your garbage publication that I talked about at the beginning of this webinar. So the bedding fluffy, but you\u2019re not fluffing it up. Um, it\u2019s just, you know, when you put it in there, um, that it\u2019s kind of fluffy.\r\n\r\nSo you wanted the contents to be damp, but not soggy. You should actually see glistening skin on your earthworms. If they look dry, then your bins to dry, you will see other types of, I call them critters. Um, what, what I mean by that is arthropod. So you\u2019ll see other insects in the worm bin and they are just decomposers that are supposed to be there. So usually so. And again, I talk about that in the book. I talked about different types and then your Vermont compost will accumulate on the bottom. So, um, I want to show you different types of systems. So if you\u2019re outdoors, they have here in California or somewhere where there\u2019s some mild climate. Now the picture on the top left that was actually taken in Texas. And you can see the worm wind rows, they, they are less than three feet high.\r\n\r\nOkay? So again, you don\u2019t want a tall windrose I showed, I compared that to composting showing, um, some Lindros that are 10 or 12 feet high. And again, with the composting, you want it to heat up. So you want that mass that will help heat up with. But with vermicomposting, it needs to remain a shallow system. Okay? This was at a prison. And so these were some outdoor insulated bins and they were installing a, some screen on the bottom to keep out moles. Okay? Um, this is obviously outdoors in the shade. Very simple materials. They put white, they painted it white on top to reflect the sun. So you\u2019re not heat into the worm beds. Um, this is inside a barn and many, many people throughout the world will use concrete blocks to make worm duds. And that works out really well. So you can see the shallow worm beds there and they were covering them up with pieces void.\r\n\r\nUm, this is what I was in Chile. There were different types of, um, worm bins. And so this shows an example, you know, this is easy to make, this is also in Chile, you can see they just use some boards and then you know, that some sticks and then they had shade cloth and that was very successful. Um, this is also in Chile. It\u2019s gorgeous piece of artwork that is. I\u2019m a worm dad and I\u2019ll talk about that some more later. This is in the Dominican Republic. Again, they were using the concrete blocks to make worm beds and I\u2019m in a very simple structure with materials that they gathered how doors. This is also in the Dominican Republic. So I\u2019m a little bit fancier there, you know, but they have again, the concrete blocks, they have screens to keep out bigger creditors, you know, like mammals and um, and then they have a to keep off the sun and rain.\r\n\r\nThis is also in the Dominican Republic. So a different type of really nice looking worm bin that was in a botanical garden there. And then, um, this is in I believe, India, India or the Philippines. And this shows how you\u2019ve got your shallow beds. And so the problem with shallow is that it\u2019s a horizontal process, you know, and so for this, they\u2019ve turned it into, um, they\u2019ve stacked them to become, to take advantage of the vertical space. Only problem is, you know, it looks like somebody has to Shimmy up and down these, um, you know, the wood to be able to get a look at the worm beds. Okay. This is also, I think this is in the Philippines and I was just showing again the concrete blocks and then, um, they\u2019ve got a simple roof structure to keep off rain and sunlight. This was in the city of Middleton in Connecticut.\r\n\r\nAnd so they were picking up food waste from a variety of locations throughout the city and they had the stacking them so you can see it. It\u2019s like pallet racking. And then they had wooden, shallow worm beds so that they could take advantage of the vertical space in this greenhouse. And then this was, um, paper shavings.com, which doesn\u2019t exist anymore, but they were, um, they were making paper shavings I think for, for bedding or something. And so they had, you know, you can only recycle paper so long and the fibers get shorter each time and so finally you can\u2019t utilize them to make more paper. And so anyway, they were feeding these short paper fibers to worms. So I just wanted to give an example of worm beds that other worm beds you could have. Um, this was being used at several schools in Sonoma County, California.\r\n\r\nAnd so I profiled some of these schools in my book and I just wanted to show you the pictures that they were taking. Um, you know, those are the pipes that you would use for underground and they cut them and then they made wooden lids. And then, um, since raccoons could lift up the wood and lives, then they put these covers over the lids, but they were taking all of the cafeteria waste and feeding them to worms. I\u2019m ECO city farms, which works with ils are. And so Benny Erez has designed these continuous flow, warren batts that work really well. And so he has these in urban farm settings and in, um, different community settings and schools in the Maryland, DC area. And then this is up and Ontario, these are insulated worm barns bins, and you know, in Ontario, I mean they probably have six feet of snow right now, right.\r\n\r\nBut they were doing vermicomposting outdoors. I\u2019m speaking of snow, so works. Speaking of snow. So this is in Colorado. So they made a worm bed that uses solar to help heat it up. This is in somebody\u2019s basement. So these are worm farmers who sell worms and Vermont compost at farmer\u2019s markets and other locations. But they came up with these taking 55 gallon drums and turning them into worm beds. So that\u2019s a cool thing. And then this is, um, you can buy purchase designs for this. So these are called Oscar beds bins. This is in the basement of a restaurant in Boise, Idaho that I profiled. And so they have a continuous flow system in the basement of the restaurant and these are trenches on a hog farm. And so, um, the trenches are 21 inches deep. So the dark trenches that you see, that\u2019s where I\u2019m hog manure is applied to the worm bed and then the lighter, um, what you see is light.\r\n\r\nThat\u2019s where the, um, a tractor can drive up and down and straddled the worm bed and apply the hog manure. So, um, so flow through raised bed systems. A lot of people want them and use them. So lower left is, that\u2019s in my worm barn. It\u2019s a modular system that\u2019s eight feet by five feet. And so, um, I\u2019ll show you what the bottom of it looks like. So that\u2019s the actual worm bed there. It\u2019s two inches by four inches in this great. And then what you\u2019re seeing here with a cable is where you could see at the end here, there\u2019s a motor and the other end has motor too. And so when it\u2019s time to harvest the berm, compost posts you, you activate the motor and it will pull the breaker bar across the bottom and about an inch of compost will be shaved off and ended up on the floor.\r\n\r\nSo I\u2019m so harvesting, like I said, the worms are in the top four inches of the worm beds, so you can get them out with a pitchfork and set it on, set the worms on a new bed, and then use a shovel to remove from a compost from the bed. So that\u2019s what I do with my, um, with the macro bins in my worm barn. The other is sideways separation. Remember I showed you the, um, you know, the worm bed in Chile and so you can see he\u2019s lifting up the, um, the cover for one section of this worm bin. So you feed that, that section for a certain amount of time and asset fills up. Then you start feeding the section next to it in the worms. Will Moe move over into that section so they kind of do self harvesting so you can see the worms just keep moving to the next section.\r\n\r\nAnd then you\u2019ll just be harvesting the castings left behind from the section you\u2019re not feeding. So, um, and then trommel screens, a lot of people use those. So that\u2019s another option, um, markets for vermicompost. So you can, if you want to get into selling it, you could sell it to home improvement centers and nurseries, landscapers like it, greenhouses, garden supply, grocery chains, flower shops, discount stores, golf courses, vineyards, it\u2019s used on athletic turf fields. And um, and also farmers will use Vermont compost. So, um, it\u2019s important to give products tested. So, um, there are certified labs. I talk about this in the book and I give you links to how to access these certified labs throughout the United States. Um, and so check out your State Agriculture Department, so it will be, you know, um, department of Agriculture. So like for North Carolina as NCDA. Okay. If you\u2019re in Missouri, it\u2019s Missouri, um, DA.\r\n\r\nBut anyhow, they\u2019ll have, they\u2019ll talk about how detest compost and compost and then the US Composting Council. They have a list of labs as well. And I encourage people, if you\u2019re selling compost, not compost that you get, you become a member of their STA program, clf testing assurance. Um, you can\u2019t register vermicompost for that yet, but I wanted to make you aware of it and then testing your product. I\u2019m plants can also, um, then you\u2019ll see, you know, if the plants are responding well. So, um, and then Brenda had mentioned that for the past 20 years I\u2019ve held an annual vermaculture conference. Here\u2019s the link to it, the right now, the link contains information from my last conference that was held in November, but you\u2019ll be able to see the speakers and topics and get a feel for it. But I mean it\u2019s just a great way for people to come together and share information about vermicomposting on a mid to large scale. So there we unwrapping it up just a little bit after three, but there you go.\r\n\r\n<em>Brenda Platt:<\/em>\r\n\r\nThank you Rhonda. That was terrific. So we have a lot of questions that have come in and before we get to that question is we have a few, uh, closing polls we want to do before people a hang up because I know not everybody can stay to the very end. So we will, um, take control back from you. And, um, one thing I want to say since you were just talking about your conference, which is amazing and terrific, is that we, uh, ils are, is also holding a national cultivating community composting forums and our next one is coming up in New York City, which is a hotbed of community composting, including some examples of worm composting on a community scale. So, um, uh, if you\u2019re interested in attending that conference or getting learn more, here\u2019s the link to learn more and let us know if you\u2019re interested by, you don\u2019t have to write down that, that a long google form a link, but you can go on the website and get to it. So we hope that you\u2019re interested in joining us folks. And so, uh, just do a few, can you type in your questions in the go to Webinar control panel and we\u2019ll get to as many as we can and the next 20 minutes. But let\u2019s just do a few closing polls. Um, and we did add one on whether people have read your report, uh, uh, Rhonda. So, um, first one here is now that you\u2019ve heard this Webinar, how I know a lot of you have already started vermicomposting, but learn more about or reach out to others.\r\n\r\nSo, um, and again, support vermicomposting means like funding, making it easier for policies, especially if you\u2019re with local government and you can select one or more of the, of these options. We have almost 70 percent of you voted some more votes coming in. All right, let\u2019s show the results. Alright, so learn more. Three quarters support more than half. Thank you. Okay, next question. As an introduction to medium and large scale vermicomposting options, let us know if this Webinar had just the right amount of information. Too much. Not Enough. We\u2019re clearly not too much information, Rhonda. So let\u2019s share the results. Most people thought it had the right amount, but people looks like there\u2019s at least one third that want more, always more with those people. Then the next question we just added at your prompt at the beginning, how many of you have read a Rhonda, his book? I will just tell you that it is almost 250 pages and it\u2019s under $30. So, um, it looks like a only four percent have read it. 90 six percent. No. So for those of you wanted more information, uh, order the book and on the next slide we\u2019ll just put up, but we have one more polling question. It\u2019s not the next slide. We just like to hear how you heard about the Webinar. So if you could just let us know which of these have you heard about the webinar through that would help us out. So the guest speaker out, which is through Rhonda, if you heard about it through her network. Okay, let\u2019s show the results.\r\n\r\nOkay. Mostly through email. That\u2019s what you usually find out. I\u2019d be curious for the other to know more about that at some point. If any of you are inclined, let us know because that was actually a higher percentage than normal by the way. This webinar had more people signed up than any other Webinar Isr has ever hosted. So thank you. Um, so, uh, the closing flight here that we have while we\u2019re gonna take questions. I\u2019m go one more Virginia to the last one. I\u2019m just about the book. I put some of the links on the slide, Virginia and I on how you can order the report. You can order it directly through the publisher, Chelsea Green publishing, or we encourage you to do it through indie bound books, um, um, which is here ww inbound.org and that will link you to your local independent bookstores. Of course the book is available on big box stores and other big corporations, but since we have a, an Amazon campaign here at Ilsr, we really encourage you to support your local bookstore, so ordered through there or directly from the publisher.\r\n\r\nOkay. So, um, let\u2019s now move into questions and, um, one question I\u2019ll just answer, I think I did it through the chat window, but, uh, somebody asked if we\u2019ll be getting copies of the powerpoint slides. We post our webinars with the recording and the slides on our website, so you\u2019ll be able to link to that, but we will not be sending out a pdf of the actual presentation. Um, and some of these, Rhonda, you may have addressed somewhat in your remarks already because they came in while you were talking, but I think it would be worth it just to talk a little bit more. So there\u2019s a question about is it possible to Vermont compost outdoors during the cold winter, such as in Massachusetts and what composting setup would be the best strategy to keep the worms worm and thriving outdoors during the winter.\r\n\r\n<em>Rhonda Sherman:<\/em>\r\n\r\nOkay. Yes, you could do it. Um, okay. So if I were going to process a large amount of feedstock or depend on my income being a Vermont composting, I would make sure that I had the conditions to make the bed itself the between 60 and 80 degrees. Okay. So yes, it can be done outside, but the worms are going to slow down. The colder it gets. So it depends on what you can do to help keep those worms worm. And so I, you know, in, for any of these things, I\u2019d be happy to talk with you. Anybody wants to email me, we can discuss this further, but, and it is in the book and I do have free resources on my website so you might find the answers there too. But yes, it\u2019s possible to do that. And I noticed that somebody asked if this book, The Worm Farmers Handbook, if it\u2019s different from Vermiculture Technology and it\u2019s a lot different.\r\n\r\nSo Vermiculture Technology was a, it\u2019s a 600 page book that I co edited, so I\u2019m, you know, listed as one of the Co editors on the, um, on the front of book and this book costs over a $100 and it\u2019s the first book on First Scientific Book and vermicomposting. So it\u2019s got a terrific amount of information from 13 different countries, 35 chapters. Um, so, but you know, it\u2019s reports by scientists and you know, and others. But um, so it\u2019s scientifically how to do, you know, I don\u2019t know how to say it is, it\u2019s got a lot of great information. But the worm farmers handbook that I put together, I wanted this to be, it\u2019s in simple language that everybody could understand and whether you want to do it on a mid scale or a large scale and whether you want to make a profit or if you just want to handle some kind of organic waste. And I insisted to the publisher that it\u2019d be a low price so that it\u2019s accessible to people because those 600 page book is very expensive. So. So they are different books.\r\n\r\n<em>Brenda Platt:<\/em>\r\n\r\nGood. Um, we have a number of questions about along the lines of feedstocks and I\u2019m going to ask them kind of together, um, uh, there was one about Ken dog waste be accomplished with worms and another one about special considerations for composting with biosolids. So why don\u2019t you take those two together because they might deal with pathogen issues. Yeah. Okay. So with both of those types of feedstocks, they, they do contain pathogens. And so, um, you, you just said to be very careful in managing them. So the answer is yes, you can. Burma, my compost dog manure and I\u2019m human, new human, newer. But it just has to be on a very careful basis, you know, where you\u2019re, you\u2019re just making sure that your not getting exposed to the pathogens and you certainly wouldn\u2019t want to sell it, um, because it could still contain pathogens. Now there are studies that show that worms as they eat the feed stock containing pathogens that what comes out the other end has very low levels of pathogens. So that\u2019s really good news. But you know, again, you just have to be careful. Okay. Um, along the same lines, just feedstocks. Can Large scale systems take meat and cooked food, especially if this is pre composted.\r\n\r\n<em>Rhonda Sherman:<\/em>\r\n\r\nOh yeah. If it\u2019s pre composted, then then you know, it\u2019s just looking like compost. So. So that\u2019s fine. Yes. You can definitely feed, feed any type of compost to the worms.\r\n\r\n<em>Brenda Platt:<\/em>\r\n\r\nOkay. What do you know about composting spent mushroom substrate?\r\n\r\n<em>Rhonda Sherman:<\/em>\r\n\r\nPeople are doing it now. I know somebody here in North Carolina who\u2019s doing it. So, so that is a, that\u2019s another feed stock. I didn\u2019t mention that, but it can be vermicomposted.\r\n\r\n<em>Brenda Platt:<\/em>\r\n\r\nOkay. There\u2019s a couple of questions on can the worms be invasive? If they escape, have you ever had any push back from local environmentalist about red wigglers being invasive species?\r\n\r\n<em>Rhonda Sherman:<\/em>\r\n\r\nPeople do ask me about it. And um, so the good news is that he offended a, is not invasive. It will not harm the environment. Okay. Now they, they originated in Europe. They landed in North America when the first Europeans planted. Okay. So they\u2019ve been here for hundreds of years and they don\u2019t, they won\u2019t live through winter, so they\u2019re not gonna, they\u2019re not gonna, they don\u2019t cause problems there. They\u2019re very small and they\u2019re sensitive to temperatures. And so, um, right before winter they, um, they made because they know they\u2019re not going to survive the winter and they want their offspring to be able to, to survive. So in Wisconsin, Minnesota, I\u2019m in the mountains of Georgia and North Carolina, there are reports of invasive earthworms that are harming the forest floor. Um, and I sent a every earthworm scientist who has studied this, confirms that I sent a feather. Fetida is not one of those worms. Okay. It\u2019s not harming the environment. So, and that\u2019s a big reason why I only focused on Isoniazid Fetida in my book because I used to tell people that there are seven earthworm species that have been identified that are suitable for Burma composting, but two or three on the list have been identified as being harmful to the environment. So I don\u2019t mention them anymore, I just, I tell people don\u2019t use them, but I sent any other dose. Fine.\r\n\r\n<em>Brenda Platt:<\/em>\r\n\r\nOkay. So a couple of questions on asking you about some methods to create a homogeneous feedstock on a large scale and I\u2019m realistic and economically viable methods to break down large pieces of food into manageable size for worms to feed on.\r\n\r\n<em>Rhonda Sherman:<\/em>\r\n\r\nOkay. So, so you just chop it up. Okay. You can chop up food by hand or you know, you with many different things, you know, I mean, you know, put it in a blender, put it in some type of blender or, or a mix, you know, a big industrial chopper, mixer. Um, you can use a shovel to chop it up. So, you know, there are all kinds of ways because with composting you need smaller particles too. So. So it\u2019s really important for composting and vermicomposting to have small pieces and that\u2019s why you can get a, an automated chopper grinder or do it by hand when I visit developing countries and teach, there are a lot of people walk around with machetes and so, you know, and they\u2019re very quick. It just chopping things up very quickly with machetes. So, you know, there are many ways to develop small particle sizes.\r\n\r\n<em>Brenda Platt:<\/em>\r\n\r\nThere was a few questions on testing. So when doing lab testing of cast, what specifically are you testing for<em> E. coli<\/em>?\r\n\r\n<em>Rhonda Sherman:<\/em>\r\n\r\nOh No, no, that\u2019s an extra test. So, um, with testing you\u2019re testing the nutrient levels. So it will say, you know, what the NPK and other macro in some micro nutrients are in the Vermont compost, it\u2019ll also tell you the carbon to nitrogen ratio, which is very important that it\u2019ll tell you the Ph, the moisture level, different things like that. So that\u2019s where you can tell, it can be very revealing what you know, what\u2019s good about your Vermont compost and what could be bad about it. And so I do have a special section in the book where I talk about that and I give what parameters you should be looking for, you know, what are the good parameters for a good from a compost. But afternoons for testing pathogens, that\u2019s a many labs won\u2019t do that many state labs or they might charge extra. They always charge extra for that.\r\n\r\n<em>Brenda Platt:<\/em>\r\n\r\nSo here\u2019s, here\u2019s another question related to testing somebody who tests there from a compost and they have good bacteria, protozoa and Nema toad levels, but low fungal numbers. How do I get a more Fungal Vermont compost? Are there specific feedstocks I should use?\r\n\r\n<em>Rhonda Sherman:<\/em>\r\n\r\nUm, I, I don\u2019t really deal with that. Um, I feel like there\u2019s, there\u2019s a lot of emphasis on, on micro organism levels in compost and compost. And um, I think, you know, people are sending in samples that you\u2019re getting a snapshot in time. So say you live on the east coast and you\u2019re sending it to the west coast and you know, a week later or so they\u2019re analyzing it. In the meantime, you could be storing your Vermont compost incorrectly and your whole population could have crashed.\r\n\r\n<em>Brenda Platt:<\/em>\r\n\r\nYeah, there\u2019s a few questions on paper only for my cast about does it diminish in value and somebody else who\u2019s heard not to use shredded office paper due to possible dioxins or other poisonous bleaching. True. And they would go on to say, and I assume, want to add thermophilic compost once it\u2019s pretty close to ambient temperature?\r\n\r\n<em>Rhonda Sherman:<\/em>\r\n\r\nOh, okay. All right. Those are two different questions. Yeah, I was gonna say I\u2019ll address the paper and then I wasn\u2019t, you were saying about the composting, but um, so paper, uh, things have changed just like inks used to be contained heavy metals and now they\u2019re made out of vegetables and legumes and so inks generally are pretty safe in paper instead of having dioxins, they\u2019re using different ways to make the paper so that, um, they\u2019re using, um, you know, like oxygen and other things to bleach it unlike what they used to do. So, so yeah, you don\u2019t have to worry about paper being fed to earthworms. And um, as far as the quality, um, so Ohio State University, they no longer have a Vermont composting program. Okay. But they used to study the effects of Vermont compost on plants and they had four different types of Vermont compost.\r\n\r\nAnd so one type was produced from food waste, one was produced from dairy manure, one was produced from a hog manure and the other was produced from cardboard. And so, um, all of the Vermont compost\u2019s were very good and they had different effects on plants. So some plants preferred the paper for Macom Post, um, especially because it, the cardboard had glue no glue in it glue residues, so that was good nitrogen for the worms. So, but worms are used to remediate contaminated soils. And so, you know, that\u2019s why I\u2019m things that are contaminated. If you feed them to earthworms, then they generally what\u2019s coming out the other end is very low in that contaminant, whether it be heavy metals are pathogens.\r\n\r\n<em>Brenda Platt:<\/em>\r\n\r\nOkay. We have a lot of questions that we\u2019re not going to be able to get to. Uh, Rhonda, if you do short answers on these weekend. So what qualifies quantifies as mid or large scale that is amount of feedstock processed or an army camp, cast output, square footage of processing space.\r\n\r\n<em>Rhonda Sherman:<\/em>\r\n\r\nOh, good question. So, so there is no, uh, you know, formal definition of those things because there is no trade association for vermicomposting. So I just came up with it on my own and so, you know, it\u2019s just small scale. If you\u2019re doing just your kitchen waste and, and just using it, you know it on site then that small scale and then midscale might be if you have a small farm or community garden or that type of thing, then that\u2019s more of a midscale and then large scale would just be really super big, you know, where you\u2019re dealing with really huge volumes. For example, I talk about in the book about in Mexico, a dentist in Mexico has over 70 vermicomposting operations or a combination of composting and vermicomposting and their smallest one is larger than pretty much anything we have in the United States. So, you know, there\u2019s no limit, but you can tell, you know, if it\u2019s a really large operation. Um, so I hope that answered it.\r\n\r\n<em>Brenda Platt:<\/em>\r\n\r\nYep. How much time would you allow for eggs to hatch?\r\n\r\n<em>Rhonda Sherman:<\/em>\r\n\r\nWell, it depends on the environmental conditions, so the eggs will hatch when it\u2019s appropriate for them to hatch. Okay. It\u2019s usually, I mean at a minimum it would be three or four weeks after the, the eggs are created, but if the conditions are too cold or too dry or too hot, then the cocoon, the, the worms will stay in that cocoon for months. They\u2019ll stay for a very long time. If the condition, if the environmental conditions are not correct for them.\r\n\r\n<em>Brenda Platt:<\/em>\r\n\r\nGreat. This might be just a yes or no answer. Do can worms consume digestate from anaerobic digesters? I\u2019d say no. Okay. Um, all right. Uh, can you, what about central and south Florida too humid, not enough organic matter.\r\n\r\n<em>Rhonda Sherman:<\/em>\r\n\r\nWhat kind of a question is that not enough organic matter? The answer is yes, you can do it. Livestock, you know, I\u2019m sure there\u2019s plenty of organic matter there and it\u2019s humid and humidity is important. So for um, humidity does affect temperature. So a worm farmer in northern California once told me that 95 degrees Fahrenheit was the sweet spot for his earthworms and my jaw dropped because at 95 percent, I\u2019m sorry, 95 degrees here in North Carolina with our typical 95 percent humidity, it\u2019s killed my worms. So humidity is a huge factor.\r\n\r\n<em>Brenda Platt:<\/em>\r\n\r\nI\u2019m like, I\u2019m going to squeeze in one last question at the risk of going over time, but I thought this was an important one. So, uh, somebody asked, how can I convince management to invest in starting a worm composting venture? And I\u2019d like you to just expand on that a Vonda to what is the biggest obstacle to really doing more of this kind of vermicomposting at farms, hospital community gardens, schools, you know, all those places you mentioned. What do, what do we need to do to, um, at all levels to be able to encourage more of this?\r\n\r\n<em>Rhonda Sherman:<\/em>\r\n\r\nWell, it\u2019s really important that people realize that it\u2019s a shallow, horizontal process. So I do have municipal people call me and say, Hey, I heard your webinar and I really want to. I think our city is right for doing vermicomposting and I often end up talking them out of it and I talked them into doing thermophilic composting instead and I\u2019m giving a, um, a half day workshop on Monday in Glendale, Arizona this coming Monday. And so I\u2019ll be talking about how to, how composters people make thermophilic composting can boost their, their product by feeding it to worms and so Vermont composting and also making vermin compost tea from it. So, um, yeah, so I\u2019d say it\u2019s just really important to understand what you\u2019re getting into and be able to. So there are some limitations on large volumes. Doesn\u2019t have to be. I mean there used to be a very large scale operation in upstate New York where I used to kid them that they\u2019re covered with snow. I\u2019m three feet of snow nine months of the year, you know, but they had a very successful from a composting operation. So, you know, it just, it\u2019s a matter of getting the right environmental conditions to keep the worms alive and help them to thrive. And it\u2019s important for people to understand that.\r\n\r\n<em>Brenda Platt:<\/em>\r\n\r\nYeah. And I\u2019ll just add, um, you know, beyond kind of how you answered this, Rhonda, that I think to expand from a composting at this kind of decentralized distributed onsite scale, we need grants, need training, we need the networking, you know, the conference that Rhonda is providing. We need exemptions from permitting and we need local government to understand that this is a viable option that could be in every school, you know, under the right circumstances. Um, and so we do need institutional support at state and local levels to, to move this and expand it, but look at all the benefits that Rhonda has articulated. So I really, at this point, probably need to end the Webinar. Thank you for all your excellent questions. Thank you for staying on to the end. Thank you, Rhonda. Thank you to my colleague, Virginia for all her support and, uh, we will let everybody know when it\u2019s posted on our website with a recorded link. So thank you all for joining us. And that concludes our webinar today. Have a good week everybody. Thank you."}]}},{"acf_fc_layout":"layout_wysiwyg","_acfe_flexible_toggle":"","component_wysiwyg":{"content":"<span>This webinar is one in a series we offer to share working models and tips for replication. View our webinar resources <\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/ilsr.org\/tag\/composting-webinars\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><span>here<\/span><\/a><span>.<\/span>\r\n\r\n<span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">To learn more about ILSR\u2019s Composting for Community Initiative, click <\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/ilsr.org\/composting\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">here<\/span><\/a><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">.<\/span>\r\n\r\n<hr \/>\r\n\r\n<h2>Rhonda Sherman\u00a0<img class=\"alignright wp-image-67556\" src=\"https:\/\/ilsr.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/12\/Rhonda-Sherman-headshot.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"230\" height=\"345\" \/><\/h2>\r\n<p class=\"pv-top-card-section__headline mt1 t-18 t-black t-normal\"><a href=\"https:\/\/composting.ces.ncsu.edu\/about-composting\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><em>North Carolina State University<\/em><\/a>\r\n<span style=\"color: #004a6e;\"><em>Extension Specialist, Department of Horticultural Science\r\n<\/em><\/span><span style=\"color: #004a6e;\"><em>Raleigh, N.C.<\/em><\/span><\/p>\r\n<span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Rhonda Sherman is<\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u00a0a leading authority on vermicomposting and organizes the world\u2019s only annual conference on large\u2010scale commercial vermicomposting (her <\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/composting.ces.ncsu.edu\/vermiculture-conference\/\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">19th Vermiculture Conference<\/span><\/a><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> took place November 10-11, 2018). Rhonda is the founder and director of a two\u2010acre Compost Learning Lab (CL2) at NC State\u2019s 1,500-acre Lake Wheeler Road Field Laboratory. The CL2 has a 40\u2010ft by 30\u2010ft Worm Barn, an equipment shed, and a covered teaching shelter. There are 26 types of composting and vermicomposting bins and areas for hands\u2010on training activities. She has taught composting and vermicomposting in Guyana, the Dominican Republic, Argentina, Chile, and throughout the United States. She has authored over 65 publications on vermicomposting, composting, recycling and waste reduction. Her new book is <\/span><i><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The Worm Farmer\u2019s Handbook: Mid- to Large-Scale Vermicomposting for Farms, Businesses, Municipalities, Schools, and Institutions<\/span><\/i><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">. Read more <\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/composting.ces.ncsu.edu\/about-composting\/\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">here<\/span><\/a><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">.<\/span>\r\n\r\n<hr \/>\r\n\r\n&nbsp;\r\n<div class=\"ttr_end\"><\/div>\r\n<a class=\"synved-social-button synved-social-button-share synved-social-size-16 synved-social-resolution-single synved-social-provider-facebook nolightbox\" style=\"font-size: 0px; width: 16px; height: 16px; margin: 0; margin-bottom: 5px; margin-right: 5px;\" title=\"Share on Facebook\" 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